Does CAPHI need NACHI members

[Robert Francis]

Roy and Ray have done more to inform members as to what is going on in Canada then anyone. They have done so up front and openly. They have done so at their own expense. They have been treatened and etc. They are always willing to help an fellow inspector and asked nothing in return. What have they received in return...........They are fighting for what they believe in. They do not hide under false names.

They truly want a better home inspection industry that is open and fair to its members, no hidden agendas, no backroom dealings, no whats in it for me, no stepping on the small guy.

Roy and Ray carry on ..... we all have a right to know, what is or is going to happen to our industry and if people do not like the truth being revelled, ask What is being not told?????


Have all the hard questions about CAPHI been answered? Noooooooo!!!!!

Have we got all the information?? Some think we have.

Are we going to wake up one morning to find out we all are governed by a privately run group that answers to NO ONE except themselves??? There is a good possibility.

Are they going to be exclusive or inclusive????????????? Read the posts from Ray and Roy for the answers.

Ray and Roy keep going.......we all need to know.

[bjones1]

No one is putting down Roy, and Ray is not mentioned (by me at least)
All I have asked in the past, all Larry was trying to point out, is for Roy to tone it down abit. Day in Day out, you can go to just about anywhere in this forum (the Canadian one) and find Roy trashing OAHI or CAHPI. Personally, I have no use for either of these so-called organisations, but I really cant stand all the caterwaulin' goin' on 'round he'ya.
Maybe with time, Roy's anger will abate, but until then, I would prefer to see NACHI business here, or unbiased reporting of the Initiative. Methinks an old aphorism should apply here: if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything.
It's always nice to be kept informed, as Roy is trying to do, but his message tends to get lost amidst the constant attacks levvied against OAHI and CAHPI.

[rwand1]

We haven't seen anything but bias, myopic, misleading stories about the National and Certification! Lets keep the facts straight. You many not have any use for CAHPI/OAHI but the fact remains they are the ones who are and will push their weight around even though they have no authority to do so but have given themselves their own power, they have granted themselfs in the by-laws. You have read their by-laws haven't you? You have read the Certification Model? Have you read the OAHI by=laws, and PR 158? Most of you don't know anything about how OAHI in particular uses underhanded tactics and breaches of the by-laws to do as they please. Unfortunately I have just rec'd some info that is appalling and shows the extent some zealots in OAHI will go to break the rules which they are suppose to uphold to keep their repressed members under control. Do you wish to be certified by these people who can't figure out how and why following rules which the government granted them is very important?

Who do you think will be administering the Certicification in Ontario? Trust me you do not want them reviewing and deciding on anything about your business or your future.

I am also tired of you newbies who have entered the field and no nothing about the politics and the games you don't know the half of it. OAHI and CAHPI run the asylum, not NACHI.

LICENCING IN ONTARIO.

No hard feelings but those are just the facts, just watch how things unfold.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by bjones1

No one is putting down Roy, and Ray is not mentioned (by me at least)
All I have asked in the past, all Larry was trying to point out, is for Roy to tone it down abit. Day in Day out, you can go to just about anywhere in this forum (the Canadian one) and find Roy trashing OAHI or CAHPI. Personally, I have no use for either of these so-called organisations, but I really cant stand all the caterwaulin' goin' on 'round he'ya.
Maybe with time, Roy's anger will abate,
.

Sorry you feel I have anger to OAHI or CAHPI . I do not.;
My main disapointment is they do not follow their rules.
They also do not tell those who wish to become inspectors that the cost could approach $10,000:00 and that 90±% will never finish.
This is far from the proper way to treat people.
You did send me a letter voicing your openion and I appreciate that.
I also receive many more letters thanking me for telling the way it is and asking me to keep up the good work . ( TWO THIS WEEK )
If you have never attended a Toronto Meeting I would say phone for OAHI's package on becoming an inspector and do go to a meeting .
Getting the package and going to the meeting could be a great eye opener for those who choose to the home inspection industry.
I Very very seldome ever get angry and try to not hold a grudge .
I just want fair play for all, all the time.
If you have read many of my letters you will see I often put in my phone number inviting new inspectors to call if needing immediate help or send me email any time and I will do my best to give you my thoughts .
No help for three weeks off to Florida tonight.
Roy sr
A Happy NACHI member.

[rwand1]

I am a member of OAHI, and I can tell you that things are not being managed properly and some of the by-laws are being breached, as is PR 158, and there are serious concerns about OAHI not putting out monthly BOD minutes as required and as they have don in the past, nor any financial info! They have increased the membership rates by decree without explaining the need nor providing financial info to the membership so the membrs themselves can see what is what to have justified the increase. The Admissions review committee is run by a select few who exceed their authority big time. They are accountable only to themselves the BOD operates in its own camp and the two together work independently. These are the same people who tell you everything is fine, when ample evidence suggests otherwise. A full and complete audit is required. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear right?

If you are residing in Ontario I was told that OAHI will be overseeing Certification in Ontario. You have nothing to fear but the fear of zealots.

By the way and this is factual. OAHI has threatened to silence me for 90 days, and after ninety days they threaten to suspend me for a year! All this from a Director who has no concept of his role and is on a power trip. He is also the Registrar of another self regulating body. Obviously he and some of his cohorts are putting OAHI in a very precurious situation legal wise. I wonder if members want their directors overstepping their roles and duties, and actions which could result in very expensive legal costs to their association.

This is not the first time members have been threatened with lawsuits, threats, intimidation, abuse of power to silence the whistle blowers and those who know full well what is going on.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

[rwand1]

Let me reiterate for those who have the ability to send this onto the powers at OAHI.

-No financial statements to date!

- 2nd quarter financial statement that were ammended and never explained (balance and P&L statements of 10/29/2004)

- No BOD minutes all year!

- No response to written complaints filed with the DPPC

- Some members have experienced no replies for months to their queries.

- Directors who do not comprehend their role and their duties.

- An insurance committee whose members of that committee are left out of the loop even though they serve as members.

- Telephone calls to the OAHI office which are met with indifference, and the lack of replies to anything asked of the secretary/registrar.

- A over zealous CAFE forum administrator and moderator who thumb their noses at the very rules they are trusted to enact.

- A recent PR event that went no where with its pre draw advertising or post draw PR efforts. Winter trip giveaway sponsored by OAHI. Nice way to promote a self regulating body.

- A body which allows and permits threats to be made on other members, without so much as a concern.

- Non issuance of membership certificates. No ID cards do not suffice for Certificates.

- The OAHI logo which remains unregistered.

- Stagnant numbers membership wise.

- Directors who do not follow the by-laws and act outside the confines of the by-laws and PR 158.

- Lack of due process by power hungry directors who have been negligent in the execution of their duties.

- Threats of suspension without a hearing!!!!!!! Very contrary to the by-laws of OAHI.

- Same bunch who will oversee Certification of the National in Ontario of OAHI members and Nachi members.

- More threats of intimidation, threats of violence knowingly being committed by certain OAHI members all well documented and made known to the Association lawyer.

- Motion tabled last year at AGM which was a by-law ammendment that would have seen Freedom of Speech ignored and silenced those with serious concerns about OAHI.
-
- Directors who have stated they are volunteers and are not compensated and do not want to play games. What games?

- These are very serious issues that are plaguing a self regulating body. People who run for office in OAHI and cannot put together a proper platform laying out their game plan but rather info that is nothing short of myopic.

- Member(s) permitted to make libelous and unfounded comments on the OAHI cafe without fear of being punished, do as you please because of who you are.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

[bjones1]

Raymond...........
As usual, your post was concise and infomative. I am not a member of OAHI. I sent for their application 2 yrs ago, went to a meeting and decided OAHI wasn't for me. It's still not.
From what I read from the useful links from yourself, Roy and Claude, I dont really think I have to worry about this too much. There are more independant HI's and Nachi members than there are in OAHI, so at some point OAHI will have to change it's ways a bit. If enough complaints are sent in and nothing is done about them, any Government official can see that something needs to be done. Getting something done is another story.
In 3 months I'm heading to cottage country to live and work. If Bill Mullens is to be believed and this initiative is voluntary, then I think I'm going to opt out for a bit. There are some of you who have volunteered to be the guinea pigs and I'll wait to see what you have to say.

[rwand1]

Brian

Thanks for that. I just want to say that I have been a member in OAHI since 1991, I have been a member longer then the current encumbents that are currently on the BOD! I also served as Chair of the Discipline committee before they gave me the bums rush when they found out that I was finding to much dirt. Some of the same people from that time are now on the CAHPI board and Certification Committee! Even the Discipline committee backed me up by quitting enmasse. OAHI has not been the same since! The membership numbers are dismal, and stagnant and have been for a number of years. They cannot and have not ever had more than 220 RHI's since its inception in 1994! Just for the record on May 21/2002 at the Toronto meeting group the membership numbers reflect what I am speaking of.

(May 21/02)
RHI 200
Assoc. Members 43
Applic. 55
Student 181
Retired 7

Many people both the public and members have tried to deal with OAHI, and all the feedback I get from service providers, applicants is the same. Who does OAHI think they are? They don't return phone calls, run arounds, indifference, etc. When you hear this from many people both inside and out, that tells me something is definetly wrong.

With OAHI overseeing the National in Ontario and Cert. you must wonder how they will be able to manage and implement when they can't even run OAHI!

The rats are slowly leaving what appears to be a slow sinking ship. I always thought OAHI was a good thing, and there are fine members, but one must wonder where all those nice folks are when it comes to questionable activities. I think most want the RHI but are not prepared to ensure the BOD acts above board. Ignorance is bliss.

I am going to see for myself what this certification is all about, and just how fair and equitable it will be. We still do not know all the details, but it does appear that Guinea Pigs are required to iron out the kinks and maybe iron out a few people they don't consider worthy.

Cheers,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

[Claude Lawrenson]

Although OAHI or other associations in other provinces (may be) contracted to oversee the certification for the National Initiative, there still remains in the process a means for relief for those that may feel short changed. That is the purpose of an "appeal" process. Secondly, the amount of detail will be established to the National Standard not the OAHI or any other provincial standard. A checklist form will be used to assure insure conformance to a proper analytical analysis.

That is the rationale behind adherence or following to the CAN-P9 standard. Quality, evidentiary paper trail and accountability, and right to know the facts in the process. Anything short of that means it is headed for an appeal! Also OAHI or any other provincial association will not be the party certifying - it still must pass through the National Certification Authority.

[rwand1]

Thanks Claude,

One question to your reply. Inspectors living in Ontario will or will not be certified by OAHI? I was told the OAHI will be administering the program and certification for Ontario. Even so the process will eventually end up on Oahi's plate, even though its national Oahi is still repsonsible for the end product in Ontario?

Thanks
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

[Claude Lawrenson]

My general understanding is "others" may be commissioned and trained to review applications for consideration by the National Certification Authority. Again OAHI does not have the authority to certify in the national program. This application review may only be a short-term set-up. "They" could merely be a broker handling application paperwork to review applicants from Ontario or possibly even other regions. However, seeing that OAHI members generally have background data on file, it would seem logical that such information could be useful in expediting the process. I rather think of "them" simply as perhaps a clearinghouse for handling the logistical paperwork in a preliminary review for referral back to the main certification body. This is not unusual particurly from a practical business and cost case scenario considering the short time frame and the potential numbers involved.

Let me use another example. First nation inspectors/building officers applicants in Canada submit their applications for review to a P.O. box number. Those applications are prescreened by the registrar and a second person (non-member) who is an highly educated academic that is highly qualified and understands the certification and accreditation process fully. These are non-biased non-voting members. They strictly look at and review the points accumulated for meeting the standards - such as experience, education, inspection reports, communication skills, past employment and references, etc. Those not meeting the requisite standards are notified of their deficiencies and are encouraged to re-apply.

This task is performed prior to submission for committee review to assure that the certification committee is not tasked with a bunch of bogus or non-compliance applications. They want to focus on those qualified and or near meeting qualification status applicants. Those that meet the established requirements for review and further consideration are brought to the committee (periodically) for discussion and serious consideration anonymously as a file number. Than the certification committee makes recommendation to the certification authority for approval or denial based on meeting the required set standard. Than its up to the certification authority to grant certifications.

Regards, Claude

[rwand1]

Those applications are prescreened by the registrar and a second person (non-member) who is an highly educated academic that is highly qualified and understands the certification and accreditation process fully.

Yes but do they know anything about our biz and home inspections? They may be brain-ee-acs academically, it doesn't make them knowledgeable in home inspections, does it? That concerns me.

[Norm Smith]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Yes but do they know anything about our biz and home inspections? They may be brain-ee-acs academically, it doesn't make them knowledgeable in home inspections, does it? That concerns me.

Raymond,
I'm surprised that someone who claimed to be retired from home inspection in order to renew his OAHI membership as a Retired RHI would care one way or another. Oh right, I forgot, you lied your head off to OAHI and then lied again on your web site in order to save a few bucks in membership fees. Hope they don't find out and then make you pay the difference between the Retired RHI fee and the full RHI fee for the past couple of years.

Norm

[rwand1]

Dave
I might add contrary to your verbal diaherria and constant unproven statements, I am a member in good standing. I have not been found guilty of anything you have said here. Nor have I ever been requested to attend a hearing. I think you are sour because you found out I have several long standing complaints against you that have been swept under the rug.

Dave you don't handle stress well, your frustration is beginning to show again. How long before you totally flip and start sending out threats and viruses again?

Thanks for sending OAHI members here to read what is going on in Oahi because the members don't have a clue so they come here. The hits on the threads prove it.

[Norm Smith]

Oops, looks like that bugger Dave hit a nerve again. Ray's about to slip into full hissy fit mode. That Dave sure knows how to push Ray's hot buttons.

Ray, do be sure to let us know if he gets back to you on any of this.

Norm