Double Taps

[phinsperger]

Larry,

Lets say that you had a double tapped 15amp breaker and each of the circuits were 14ga wire with 10 devices on each wire. That means that you have a total of 20 devices being served by the one breaker (yes against rule 12-3000) but is there any combination(s) of load you can put on the circuit that would cause the wires to overheat or other damage before the breaker trips?

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by phinsperger

I think double tapping has more to do with one of the wires from coming loose. I don't think it has to do overloading.

This is the way I see it too.

And thanks guys, I just thought I may have been confusing some with our NEC vs your CEC...wasn't my intention.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Many are talking about double taps and how may outlets are permitted and lots of other things including what code it is covered by ,etcetera.
The main thing wrong with double taps is strictly one wire can not get enough pressure to carry the load. Poor connection leads to resistance this leads to heating .Heating leads to more resistance which causes more heat
And eventually a problem . It can be the wire breaks or worse a fire . Number 14 solid and a bell transformer are still double taps . Write them up protest your self. Past experience for me is most people do not follow many of our finding. This is their problem I do my part write hard talk soft miss nothing and Cover my ***** to stay out of court. Sq D is the only breaker I know in the residential area that permits double tapping ,then the wires must be the same size and both solid or stranded not mixed.
Roy Cooke sr.. R.H.I. ... Royshomeinspection.com

[rwand1]

Well the way I see it at least with double taps its black and white. The code says specifically not to. There is no provision for manufactures specific breaker to allow this. Just because Square D makes a breaker that can be double tapped, doesn't mean it has to be used. How much do three breakers cost? $20-50 tops! How much time to put three breakers in and do it right? Electrician time for an hour to do the work $75-100. That is not an expensive repair and should theoretically should not be a deal breaker.

[Vern Mitchinson]

Right on Ray, I agree two taps on one breaker is a code violation. PERIOD.
When I find one I flag it. "another breaker is required so that the double tap can be eliminated". If there is any drought as to my clients ability I call for a licensed electrician to fix.
Last year I was called back my a client from the year before and the house had a 14 guage double tapped into one side of the two pole 30 amp dryer breaker. This was a year after my inspection and his purchase. He has not fixed it.

Some people never learn and some still later.

[rwand1]

Received an answer from ESA re double taps. Here is the response for your your files and knowledge base, as if we are not already on information overload.

I am answering your question by splitting it into two questions.

1. Does the code prevent terminating two conductors to a single branch circuit breaker?


The code does not prevent connecting two conductors to a single branch circuit breaker provided that the breaker is approved for that purpose. As you suggest, the Square D 15 - 30 amp single pole Type QO breaker is approved for the termination of two conductors.

2. Does the code prevent using a branch circuit panelboard enclosure as a junction box or a raceway?

The code states that the enclosure shall be permitted to be used as a junction box if wiring is being added to an enclosure forming part of an existing installation and the conductors, splices and taps do not fill the wiring space at any cross-section to more than 75% of the cross-sectional area of the space.

Ontario Electrical Safety Code Rules 2-034, 12-3034.


Code Specialist
Electrical Safety Authority

ESA encourages the use of Licensed Electrical Contractors.
All electrical work requires a Certificate of Inspection from the Electrical Safety Authority.

>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<


Original question:
comments: Two weeks ago I sent a question in via this contact form. I never did receive a response to question lett alone an receipt that this contact form was receive.


My original question was regarding double taps in residential electrical panels, whether they are permitted or not. The ESCode states they are not, but I have been seeing many double taps and there has been a ESA sticker on the panel. I am also aware that Square D breakers allow two wires, but what is ESA opinion?


Thank you.
Raymond Wand

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

thanks Raymond we are all just a little smarter .
Roy Cooke sr Royshomeinspection.com

[William J. Decker]

The point here is not what is 'allowed' by codes or what is 'allowed' by a panel manufacturer or what realtors 'want' to believe (especially if it makes their lives easier).

The point is best practices and safety and serving the client.

I have had many sparkys dress me down for callong out double (and triple!!!) taps.

I stay calm and ask them, "You say it is OK, in writing, on your letterhead and with your license number and insurance certification printed, I have no problem." They just look at me (kind of confused looking) and say "It's code!". I then respond "Hey, guy, you want the liability, you want to take the liability off my, and my client's shoulders, fine by me! Let's just get it all good and documented.'

Most times, they just say a bad word and walk away.

Hope this helps.

[lewens]

Will
And what pray tell is the "bad word" they use? If the code says it is not allowed it is not allowed. If you find a double tap and an ESA sticker on the panel I would be calling the ESA and letting them take the liability.
Larry

[William J. Decker]

Dear Larry;

I work in the states. We are not nearly as civilized as you are in the Great White North.

Around here (Chicago area) the Unions rule. They think they can get away with this because they own the governments and write the 'code'. (Try to read the City of Chicago Electrical Code sometime. It is, by far, the most complicated construct of modern man!!!).

So, I put the liability on them.

Few decide to accept it.