E&O insurance quote

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Student Members Student Members are non-practicing members and are in the process of advancing their membership category. Student Members have to complete ...., paid inspection requirement, or technical background review. Student Members are not permitted to show any affiliation with the OAHI.

I do not under stand the rationale of requiring unqualified people doing paid inspections. If the association was serious about protecting the public's interest this condition would be thrown out. Forcing untrained people to do inspections reflects on the whole industry and should be stopped.
The requirement should be that inexperienced inspectors have to do a certain number of inspections under the direct supervision of a certified inspector and then pass a test after completing these inspections. The mentor would be fully responsible for the actions of the trainee until he has completed the whole program and is them fully qualified to work on his own.
It would also likely lower the insurance premiums.

PS How can they be "non-practicing members" when they are collecting money for their inspections.
Sounds like the goal is to become a member reather then a compentent HI.

[rwand1]

But... if the Student is a PEO or Contractor, and is already doing inspections prior to joining OAHI and is practicing as home inspector as a PEO or Contractor OAHI cannot force him to stop performing inspections.
The whole Student category is crazy.

If one is not advertising OAHI in anyway shape or form as a Student, then OAHI has no just cause to take action. To infringe on the by-law the Student would have to advertising affiliation with OAHI. Even if the Student has a website advertising home inspections and no mention of OAHI the Student is not in contravention, nor his he in contravention if he is charging for the inspections and not mentioning OAHI.

The by-law is convoluted and contrary and anti competitive and being manipulated to suit the agenda of OAHI. Keep the student down, collect membership fees, education fees, don't allow him to vote, and deny him a right to earn a livelihood, and impose administrative fees. Lets pull wool over their eyes and keep the coffers flush!

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rwand1

But... if the Student is a PEO or Contractor, and is already doing inspections prior to joining OAHI and is practicing as home inspector as a PEO or Contractor OAHI cannot force him to stop performing inspections.
The whole Student category is crazy.
fees. Lets pull wool over their eyes and keep the coffers flush!

This is exactly what OAHI has done for years keep the door almost closed . Open it just enough to allow some to become RHIs .They remain constant just over the 200± number of RHIs. Those who move up are by this time so indentured into the system the go completely along with it .
Aug 2004 212 RHIs
July 2005 210 RHIs
June 2006 208 RHIs ...approx
They have around in each year
about 100± associates
about 10± Applicants and
about 250± students.
They milk these at the bottom and never tell them that the odds are very small of ever becoming and RHI.
The charge the high fees to belong and give them no returns .
They charge them large fees for the courses
( that are taught by many of the (BOD) ( I understand many of these make more money from teaching then they do from Home inspections.)
They sell a huge number of OAHI packages to want to be home inspectors .
I do not think these numbers have ever been released.
They continually use intimidation to keep those at the bottom from advancing
They Levey bogus charges and fines as they see fit .
Information asked for is seldom given .
I was on the election committee for a few years and they always had irregularities on them .

Roy Cooke Happy that NACHI supports its members

[George A. H. Luck]

It's pretty simple Ray. All of these restricitons, requirements and incredible expenses are aimed at thinning the herd. OAHI is not interested in increasing the number of home inspectors. They, being a liberal organization in a liberal province in a liberal country are deathly afraid of free enterprise and are unwilling to allow the market place to remove poor inspectors through attrition. This would mean that they were not in control of every aspect of an HI's life and then all hell would break loose!

There would be riots in the streets, cats sleeping with dogs and the Leafs winning the Stanley cup.

That is why the org. will ultimately fail. Unless they have complete control of the HI industry in Ontario ( and Canada through the national) giving them the ability to dictate who will be and who will not be a Home Inspector more member friendly organizatons will flourish. HI's will always discover this and other organizations ( C.F.I.H.I.) that provide services and actually help their members. And that is an anathema to OAHI.

[Vern Mitchinson]

You get the government you deserve.

Do you think CAPHI will ever change it's ways?

[rwand1]

Do you think CAPHI will ever change it's ways?

No and I don't think NACHI will change either! The members like anyother voluntary association get what they deserve. The opportunities exist to enact change, and the enacting of the change will only come through legislative action of licencing. The sooner the better in Ontario.

[Rob A. Parker]

Just recieved a letter today confirming my upgrade to RHI.First paragragh reads
RHI members are persons who1) complete all entrance requirements; (2) obtain and mantain mandatory insurance coverage in accordance with OAHI Minimum Requirements;(3) remain members in good standing which includes obtaining 20 Continuing Education Units (CEU's) everytwo years,as per the By-laws.
This tells me you have to have insurance to be an RHI and I was required to send acopy of my insurance coverage to OAHI before they would grant my upgrade,no mention of any disclaimer form.I remember some thing about being able to use a disclaimer form back a year or so ago, but looks like OAHI has had a change of hart

[rwand1]

From the OAHI bylaws.

Article 5
Errors and Omissions (Professional Liability) Insurance

1. Except as provided in Sentence 2, RHI Members, Associate Members and Applicant Members are required to obtain and
maintain in good standing errors and omissions insurance coverage that meets minimum coverage recommended by the
Insurance Committee and approved by the Board of Directors from time to time.

2. In the absence of the errors and omissions insurance described in Sentence 1, RHI Members, Associate Members and Applicant Members are required to disclose to each and every home inspection client that they do not hold errors and omissions insurance, and obtain the client's written acknowledgement of this disclosure.

Also on membership application there are two check boxes.

Box 1: I enclose my Insurance Cert from my insurance broker showing the individual names of all covered inspectors, amount of liability and the policy effective dates and enclose Form 1.

Box 2: I declare and agree to disclose to each and every client that I do not hold errors and omissions insurance, and agree to obtain a written acknowledgement of this disclosure as required in Article 5.2 of OAHI bylaws.

[rwand1]

Rob

OAHI seems to be behind. They have failed to post the 20 Day Upgrade Notice on the OAHI website. The last 20 Day Upgrade Notice was June 19/06. But I guess its like the missing minutes of BOD meetings, and financial reports, and other previous posted info. Too bad the precedent of posting vital information has been stopped. I guess the info is to filtre out piece meal if at all. The missing Upgrade notice is dated
20 Day Upgrade - July 25, 2006 http://www.oahi.com/reading/20DayUpgrade-July25-06.pdf

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rparker

Just recieved a letter today confirming my upgrade to RHI.First paragragh reads
RHI members are persons who1) complete all entrance requirements; (2) obtain and mantain mandatory insurance coverage in accordance with OAHI Minimum Requirements;(3) remain members in good standing which includes obtaining 20 Continuing Education Units (CEU's) everytwo years,as per the By-laws.
This tells me you have to have insurance to be an RHI and I was required to send acopy of my insurance coverage to OAHI before they would grant my upgrade,no mention of any disclaimer form.I remember some thing about being able to use a disclaimer form back a year or so ago, but looks like OAHI has had a change of hart

Yes that is what came out use a declaimer . I understand many do not have
Insurance and also have not been getting the disclaimer signed .
I would send them a letter asking for a copy of the notification of when this information was sent out to the membership.
. This just sounds like more of typical OAHI change rules or ideas and , who cares if the membership does not know.
They seem to do many thinks with not getting impute from the membership or notifying the membership . Many things not legal or proper.
Roy Cooke .. RHI... Royshomeinspection.com.. OAHI-ONT
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[lewens]

Rob
I understand why you became a member of OAHI. I have a problem understanding why you put up with all the crap coming down the pike. Do you feel any more competent now that you are a RHI? Did the money you invested to do so really help your ability to inspect? We constantly hear of how NACHI is turning out unqualified inspectors and I just don't understand this. It is not my membership in NACHI that has made me an inspector, it is the years of experience and the education I have that makes me certified. The membership is decision I made to further my career in the industry. To me it just makes good business sense. For 79 cents a day I cannot think of any reason not to belong to NACHI. The info on the BB is worth the money. OAHI has nothing to offer me. When I first heard Nick speak about what the association was going to do for me I was very much surprised. I cannot think of any other organization I have belonged to whose main purpose is to help out it's members.
I am also surprised to see that OAHI's requirement regarding CEU is only 20 in 2 years. And they call us bogus, go figure. Ray Wand is probably right in that licensing is inevitable. We will most likely not see it for years as the cost of administration is not going to be covered by the fee and I don't see Ontario or Canada spending the money on something that frankly, they are not concerned about. CMHC has already spent a bunch of our cash on something that is just not going to work, due mostly to the fact that without grandfathering the RHI's are going to be on a level playing field with any well trained newbie that can cut the mustard. I just don't like the way the whole thing is being handled. NACHI must be brought to the forefront in the industry and that is precisely what we, as a group, are going to do.
Larry

[rwand1]

Larry

As long as CAHPI and OAHI and any other provincial body that report solely to themselves there are going to be improprities. We have seen first hand here just how OAHI and CAHPI deal with things. 1. Ignore the problem. 2. Deny the problem exists. 3. Don't act on concerns. 4. Pass the buck. 5. Hide skeletons. 6. Let special interests and special people say and do things with no accountability. 7. Make the rules up to suit the agenda, even if the action is not supported in the by-laws.
8. Report to yourselves so that the problems are hidden from external review so the buck doesn't stop. 9. Deny, deny, deny. 10. If all else fails use intimidation and threats to enact your agenda.

[Rob A. Parker]

Ray it appears to me that OAHI has 2 sets of by-laws one for OAHI members and a hidden set for OAHI-NACHI members.
Larry I jioned OAHI almost 4 years ago and started into the program and by the time I found NACHI I was well into the program.I have had my problems with OAHI but stayed with it for my own personal reason and the main one was to recieve my RHI no matter what.Yes I came close to giving up a couple of times and that is when I joined NACHI.NACHI is like you said a great association with graet members like Ray, Roy,yourself and more than I can list here.I will remain a member of NACHI as well as OAHI as I feel being a member of both I can some how possible make changes in the way the two association function in Ontario.I may be dreaming and there is alot to over come but in the end it is possible I believe.

[rwand1]

Right from the OAHI bylaws

(f) to seek and maintain affiliations with, and to co-operate with, other organizations having objects, in whole or in part, the same as or similar to the objects of the Association.

And from Pr 158
3 (f)
to seek and maintain affiliations with, and to co-operate with, other organizations having objects, in whole or in part, the same as or similar to the objects of the Association.

Sure is strange both the Acts are being used subjectively and with bias. What does objects, in whole or in part, the same as or similar mean?

[lewens]

Ray
It appears that OAHI is only interested in it's own agenda and recognizing NACHI doesn't fit that agenda. The bylaws and articles be damned. I applaud you guys for hanging in there, at least we get an insiders view of what is being said regarding the industry and it's affect on the buying public. How anyone cannot come to this board and see the benefit of the association is beyond me. I am sure there are OAHI members who read what is going on and report same to the BOD of OAHI, they lurk behind the scenes and are afraid to come out in the open about their views, most likely because they are afraid of the consequences. It takes a strong person to voice your doubts and embrace another view of things. A true test of your convictions is to come forward and defend your position and be prepaired to get the opposing viewpoint, then walk away with a new understanding of what is being perceived by the "others". Where the damage lays is in constantly demeaning the other point of view and not recognizing the good and bad in both.
Larry
PS
Having said that I see no reason to join OAHI, they can give me nothing and I have nothing to offer them.