Ex NACHI member now ex OAHI Director.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by bmullen1

OAHI is not the hinge pin.........although Ontario is. OAHI might not be needed in the mix. We do not need NACHI members, but they are most welcome to apply. All NACHI needs to do is apply for and receive an Equivalency rating and their members have all the rights and privileges and rates that anyone else has.

Why get into a pissing match when we have a common foe? Maybe the NCP and the CMI can work something out. Nick and I have a good relationship. If the NCP is considered a failure by some because we only have 300 to 400 applicants out of 1200 CAHPI members, what is the CMI when it has fewer than 300 out of 10,000 NACHI members? Instead of smacking each other in the face maybe its time for some serious talk without dragging out the old crap.

Bill Mullen

Bill Why do you not come out and tell the truth .You and Claude do nothing but evade .
I understand there was 97 in the first section , no idea in the second .
With all the evading I expect it is a lot less then that .
Your past statements said you would have 200 to 500 by the end of 2006 and 5,000 by the end of 2007.
Your statements of having spent $2,000,000:00 we now know was completely false. You have continued to call me and others liars.
Well Bill it looks like you have some explaining to do. You keep comming unto the NACHI site and tell us all you do not need us but it looks to me like you are pleading and are in trouble .
If as you say the National Certification was a success why are you not giving out Numbers and Names .
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http://remonline.com/rem/news/newspa...tus=yes&top=75

The aim of the pilot project was to identify any problems with the model and the process. It also helped the NCA to determine the actual costs needed to accredit courses and to certify practitioners. The pilot project has just been completed. CAHPI and the NCA are now inviting all Canadian home inspectors, both members and non-members, to apply to become National Certificate Holders. The goal is to have 200 to 500 National Certificate Holders by the end of 2006 and many more in subsequent years until most competent Canadian home inspectors become “National Certificate Holders

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According to an article in the December 19th Business Buzz section of the London Free Press, Bill Mullen, owner of Bluewater Home Inspection in Sarnia, Ontario has been named to head a national program which is set to begin certifying home inspectors in Canada in 2006.

The program is a joint project involving Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation, Human Resource and Skills Development Canada, the Canadian Federal Ministry of Housing, and the Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI) and is the culmination of 8 years of effort aimed at educating, assessing and certifying about 5,000 Canadian inspectors under the umbrella of CAHPI. So far, preparations have cost more than $2,000,000 (CN).

Mullen will oversee the implementation phase of the program and will direct the certification process of individual practitioners and the accreditation of educational institutions involved in training. The target is to have all practicing inspectors in Canada certified by the end of 2007.

Mullen has been an inspector for 13 years and has held positions on the boards of both the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors (OAHI) and its counterpart CAHPI.

For more information about this program, including a breakdown of the core skills of home inspectors and details of the actual certification process, visit the CAHPI website.
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This is the same stories you gave us all about Whistler
We are still waiting for your big anoucement too.
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Remember Whistler
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935
Bill has a big anouncement comming soon
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost.php?p=166560&postcount=103

[Claude Lawrenson]

Nick and the CMI are welcome; there are open invitations to apply for Equivalency Review. That has already been expressed here before by Bill Mullen and also by me.

I have the Equivalency Review forms - the next move is up to Nick. It's once again a matter of choice. The exact same protocol all other associations are going through, or have already gone through. There's nothing to hide accept complete the documentation and pay for the independant consultants review fee.

As I stated before other home inspection associations are in that process - right now.

No equivalency agreement - no fee reduction.

The NCA also has quite a number of training providers on both sides of the border that will be receiving accreditation agreements.

The 97 anounced received national certificate holder status last fall at the conference. So the numbers have grown since than. Besides somes had to clean up small deficiencies such as an incomplete TIPR or an issue related to background review. There is no automatic rubber stamp or free pass involved. That is why we have a National Certification Council - that reviews each and every application. BTW: we have 3 independent members sitting on that council, along with home inspectors to assure impartiality and fair treatment for one and all applicants.

They are the final decision makers of applicants status - not OAHI, or any other association. If the applicant does not meet the required criteria they are notified of their deficiencies. As I said before - no free passes. You have to earn it and document by proof your background and pass a test inspection with peer review. No rigor - no credibility.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

And we just go around in Circles .
Questions asked and still not answered .
It is Obvious that The National Certification is a flop or you would be giving answers.
What you have is not fair to those who have taken and are now qualified to do inspections by not posting their names .
Why would any one think things are going to improve they did not after all the money was spent on Whistler a few years .
You tell us $2,00,00;00 has been spent then we find out it has not .
You tell us how great it is going and it is not.
NICK is very smart and he has not said he feels NACHI should consider joining with CAHPI .
Claude Posted earlier CAHPI has the control of the National Certification.
NACHI Charges a lot less and gives a huge amount more then CAHPI.
This BB is still open for CAHPI to use but the CAHPI BB was shut down when questions started to get asked there.
NACHI members do not have the use of Bill Mullens Propaganda Machine
( His Canuk list ) .
Keep trying Claude until you and CAHPI can show us the full information and not the continued ZIP ,I see no advantage at all to even consider your Lousy offers.
Information is lacking completly.

Thanks ... Cookie

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

I would like to suggest that before any more trying to sell the National Certification to the nachi membership.
It might be a big advantage to try and get communication between CAHPI/OAHI and NACHI.
Co-operatin and communication would soon soften the attitude between all members .
We are all home inspectors who wish to make a living and help each other.
The closed door attitude from all Canadian association and their Bulletin Boards sure does not lead to a good feeling in the Home inspection industry.
We ( NACHI) keeps trying but the reciprocal is not there.

Cookie

[Claude Lawrenson]

Roy - unfortunately it seems that any dreams of that communication - appears to be long past. NACHI has provided opportunities, but to date none have been utilized. What can I say? That was their choice, not yours, not mine. Hey some even ask that I not even respond here!

You saw as well as me in Toronto that a handful of members visited the NACHI Conference. I welcomed that opportunity, a long with others. But you are trying to convert someone - that already sees both sides. I am not in a position to change OAHI or any other organization over night. That comes from the membership demanding change. Otherwise they simply follow suit.

Now on the issue of home inspectors helping each other - thats great. That is what it is all about. That to me is also part of mentoring.

The closed door policy regarding BB was the choice of the associations, not necessarily the membership. Again the choice of how one runs an association comes in different sizes and flavours. As you already know OAHI and ASHI have moderators and censorship. Again , that is their choice.

That is why I choose not to put all my "eggs" in one basket. To do so is foolish - besides other associations have other things to offer.

BTW: I am not here to sell the NC to the NACHI membership. I have offered answers. I do not have all the answers, but at least some are offered. As an example - I do not know why the membership of the National Certificate Holders are not listed. Perhaps there are several reasons - best guess, fear of dilution of the RHI, or possibly fear of a competitive advantage, or a decision made by others before me. Some also see it as naming names may just provide another opportunity to comments by those that have already taken shots at a few names of examiners and other people associated.

But I can equally keep my "pie hole" shut. If that is what it takes. But I really thought this BB was beyond censorship.

By the way zip is nothing. Thank you for valuing my comments on nothing. I offer no more.

[Bill Mullen]

Cam Allen has asked me to post this response to Tom Lloyd on the Canuck Forum. I am also posting it here without comment.

Bill Mullen

Greetings Mr Mullen; I would like to ask you to post the following note on your forum. I cannot access the OAHI forum, have not been able to for some time now.
Thank You

Good Evening to All OAHI Members

I have purposely waited a few days to see the reaction of the OAHI Board. I am very, very disappointed in the action they have taken. I will now set the record straight and clear. I attended the OAHI Board Meeting on July 27th as requested. I fully admit I did not attend the first three meetings and I deeply apologize for this, it was due to business and personal reasons. One of which was the passing of Ron Tropea, someone I liked and admired for his honesty. I was ready to attend the June Meeting for the OAHI Board and we received a message from Mr Lloyd who simply said the meeting was cancelled due to "scheduling issues" No other reason was given, some OAHI board members questioned this but to my knowledge they were not answered.
This brings me to the Meeting of July 27th. I attended the meeting with 5 other board members in attendance and one member on phone conference. Mr Lloyd opened the meeting and then directed a tirade at myself for missing the meetings, I apologized. He then asked me to sign the confidentiality agreement. I refused, based upon legal advise and he immediately attacked me over the "White Paper on OAHI" that I wrote years ago. He claimed I could not be trusted to keep my mouth shut. I directed questions to him about the National Program to which he claimed that " Bill 58 takes time to change" and that "the National Program is not the only priority" . By now Mr Lloyd was visibly shaking and loudly announced the meeting was closed. At which point I left the room, I had been advised by the President that the meeting was over.
My opinion here is brief, there were four other board members not present.......Why? Why is a confidentiality agreement necessary, it is very simple. It would give certain individuals in OAHI the grounds to sue any director who does not tow the line. I have already seen their lawsuits in action....No Thanks. Where are we now.....I am going to attend the next meeting and will see how I am addressed. Anyone who has read the OAHI regulations know what has been done here is wrong, contrary to Mr Lloyds comment. If I am removed again I will continue forward thru other means to remain on the board. I was the only one to step up from Kingston, volunteer work is time consuming. I also firmly believe that the financial records of this organization need to have a forensic audit, as a matter of fact my motion was on the agenda for this meeting to have this audit adopted.
My personal comments. It is no secret that I am a strong supporter of the CAHPI National Program. I have felt for years, as have many others that the OAHI process is restrictive and we need another approach. I have read the comments on other HI web sites about what has happened. I have felt for years and still believe strongly that a responsible, respected "Made in Canada" program that is open to all is a good start. The CAHPI National Certification is not perfect, but at least it is a good start. There are some good people involved, Claude Lawrenson is an excellent leader who deserves our respect and a chance to lead us. Is it now the time to open the doors and give this process a chance?
On September 10th in Kingston I intend to hold an open door meeting for "All" home inspectors, it is not an OAHI Meeting, rather a chance to sit down with other HI"s, maybe shake the hands of those you have questioned. I have invited Claude and Bill, hopefully their schedules permit making the trip. Come join us, what have you got to loose......the price of a great dinner at Minos Restaurant in Kingston. That is all it will cost you. Myself and some other respected like minded HI"S are covering the room rental and any other costs. If you shake my hand, I might even buy you a beer and see if we can talk a National Idea for all of Us.....you may meet some friends.........What have you got to loose???
Regards
Cam Allen

[Claude Lawrenson]

Thanks for the update.

“A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others”
Ayn Rand

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Thanks Cam, I appreciate what you have said .
We both agree on many things .
I left you have chosen to stay and fight .
I wish you all the best and hope things do improve drastically.
Thanks again Roy Cooke sr.
I will send this to Cam also.

[rwand1]

A forensic audit? What a novel idea!

Playing by the by-laws/Roberts Rules of Order? Me thinks not.

No one has ever been sued by OAHI for breach of confidentiality agreements, only threats to sue. Intimidation, blackmail, conflicts?

Due process once again has taken a back seat to membership rights and Directors rights.

There must be an awful lot of dirt CAHPI-OAHI doesn't want being told. Thus the need for a confidentiality agreement. Considering what is taking place in CAHPI-OAHI accountability wise, with lack of BOD reports, financial info, membership numbers, et al. I am surprised the other directors appear to have been so eager to sign, and then force a director out. Why would anyone sign a confidentiality agreement when it would not protect someone from negligence at the corporate level or from revealing possible breach of various provincial ACTS and laws? Even more so if we believe what is relayed in the communique that Mr. Allen's counsel suggested he not sign it.

I have also been informed that the same communique posted here by Bill Mullen on behalf of Mr. Allen has been removed from the CAHPI-OAHI CAFE forum. I guess they don't want Mr. Allen's side being told. So expect the number of hits to go up as CAHPI-OAHI members come here to get their news that CAHPI-OAHI doesn't want them to have. Freedom of Speech is a door mat at CAHPI-OAHI!

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rwand1

A forensic audit? What a novel idea!

Playing by the by-laws/Roberts Rules of Order? Me thinks not.

No one has ever been sued by OAHI for breach of confidentiality agreements, only threats to sue. Intimidation, blackmail, conflicts?

Due process once again has taken a back seat to membership rights and Directors rights.

There must be an awful lot of dirt CAHPI-OAHI doesn't want being told. Thus the need for a confidentiality agreement. Considering what is taking place in CAHPI-OAHI accountability wise, with lack of BOD reports, financial info, membership numbers, et al. I am surprised the other directors appear to have been so eager to sign, and then force a director out. Why would anyone sign a confidentiality agreement when it would not protect someone from negligence at the corporate level or from revealing possible breach of various provincial ACTS and laws? Even more so if we believe what is relayed in the communique that Mr. Allen's counsel suggested he not sign it.

I have also been informed that the same communique posted here by Bill Mullen on behalf of Mr. Allen has been removed from the CAHPI-OAHI CAFE forum. I guess they don't want Mr. Allen's side being told. So expect the number of hits to go up as CAHPI-OAHI members come here to get their news that CAHPI-OAHI doesn't want them to have. Freedom of Speech is a door mat at CAHPI-OAHI!

This exactly what we have know all along NACHI is the only place that has freedome of speech.
Bill Mullens Canuk forum does not allow it .
The CAHPI BB did not allow it.
The CAHPI national Certification group comes to the NACHI BB to get its message out.
NACHI has continually offered communication and help to all Canadains.
They have been courteous to all Canadian associations .
Unfortunately this has not been returned at all. It is a secret how they do thing and they all do not wish others ( Including their own membership ) Know what is going on .
I did not renew my membership in OAHI because they would not follow their own rules .
I had laid a charge on one of the directors and they just stone walled and ignored my asking for a hearing .
Talk about protecting them selves .
They have had two Financial secretaries leave in mid term due to irregulartie.
OAHI has had other many other directors quit because of OAHI not following the OAHI/CAHPI rules.
These are the people who come to our BB and give no information and expect us to join their National Certification.
Still No information has be given out on the NAtional Certification..
Sorry I am not interested in another secret group who do not follow the rules .
I feel NACHI and The Certified Master Inspector will do more for a lot less money.

CAHPI tried it before and it flopped.......... Cookie

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

Bill has a big anouncement comming soon http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost.php?p=166560&postcount=103

Still waiting for Bill big anouncement

[rwand1]

OAHI by-law
Article 6 Board of Directors.

8. The office of a director of the Association shall be vacated:

(a) If he becomes bankrupt or a receiving order is made against him or he makes an assignment under the Bankruptcy Act
(Canada);

(b) If an order is made declaring him to be a mentally incompetent person or incapable of managing his own affairs;

(c) If he is convicted of any criminal offence;

(d) If by notice in writing to the Secretary of the Association he resigns his office and such resignation, if not effective immediately, becomes effective in accordance with its terms; or

(e) If he ceases to be an RHI Member.

10. The members of the Association may, by resolution passed by at least two-thirds of the votes cast at a general meeting of which notice specifying the intention to pass such resolution has been given, remove any director before the expiration of his term of office and may, by a majority of the votes cast at such meeting elect any RHI Member in his stead for the remainder of his term.

[rwand1]

It sure is remarkable how much power Mr. Lloyd has.
What is even stranger is the fact that Mr. Lloyd once again has been able to demonstrate his inability to acknowledge fair play, and committment to the by-laws he undertook to uphold upon his election, along with his cohorts who clearly do not wish the true story to be told.

Just how long are the members of CAHPI-OAHI going to be lulled into the false sense of security in thinking that their rights will be protected from zealots who are quite prepared to squander peoples enshrined rights?
Just how many more members will be subject to the wants and dictates of people on their so called elected board that have also lied to them about the financial state of affairs and the lack of proper BOD meeting minutes?

Members where told if they wanted to see the financial info to go to head office. While I can tell you I took them up on that offer, and the records do not exist, because they could not produce them at CAHPI-OAHI lawyers office, which is the corporate head office? Come folks its not rocket science, and you don't have to be a detective to figure out something stinks and doesn't jive eh!.

Just how many more fiascos, resignations, lies, are going to be allowed to be perpetrated by these clowns who are drunk with power and don't give a damn about good governance? Just look how Mr. Lloyd accused many of us of misuing CHI and then had the decentcy to report us to ASTTBC only to find out he was completely out to lunch about OAHI holding the rights to CHI in Ontario.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Raymond ,My wife ( Char ) belongs to a Genealogy Group of about 400~.
Before they send out the year end they require a non member to go over the Books and the financial statement.
They do not require a CA but it must not be a member to confirm the Figures.
We spent a couple of hours to find a missing penny to be sure that all was done properly.
Every member got a complete break down of all expenses and how they where spent.
When I was with OAHI I never saw this done.
I was on the OAHI elections committee for 3 or more times and not once was the elections held properly.
I have no reason to expect that the finances could be any different.
I expect some day there could be a meeting of the minds and under oath there could be information come out .
Just like at my appeal against OAHI under oath the truth came out and I won my case 5 for me 0 for OAHI.
There are a lot of great honest Home Inspectors who deserve to know what has gone on in the past.

.......... Cookie

[George A. H. Luck]

"Why is a confidentiality agreement necessary"

Far be it for me to come to the defense of O.A.H.I. but most if not all large corporations make their chief financial officer(s) adhere to a confidentiality agreement of one kind or another. This position allows it's holder to access the kind of information that should not be released to the competition for obvious business reasons. Frankly, with a history of "outing" O.A.H.I. like that of Cam Allen's ( the much talked about "White Paper") it comes as no surprise that this organization would want him to sign such an agreement. Let's face facts. He is a bit of a loose cannon and it shouldn't surprise anyone that O.A.H.I. might be a little cautious in this case.

Once bitten / twice shy.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Whether we like Cam or not to ignore corruption of an association is wrong. To me it looks like he is the only one with Balls to stand up for what is correct and proper.

Corruption is not merely a dirty, word. It describes a dirty act. We need to have a policy of zero tolerance towards all acts of corruption- Sri. T.N.Chathurvedi , Governor of Karnataka.

..............Cookie