Ex NACHI member now ex OAHI Director.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Here's another one: Good governance requires accountability between those in positions of power and those whose interests they are supposed to be serving - the members. Accountability cannot be effective unless there is reasonable communication, transparency and openness in the conduct of the organization’s work. Governance must be fair, which implies conformity to the rule of law and principles of equity.

[George A. H. Luck]

I agree Roy. Whether we like this person or not is irrelevant. The point is that this organization, a registered corporation, has the right to protect itself from those who might be on a personal crusade. Too, whether or not we would like to see O.A.H.I. gutted and it's inner workings and darkest secrets displayed for all to see, the reality is that we should not be surprised to see the corporation trying to protect itself from someone as destructive as has been evidenced.

I support full disclosure. I support this disclosure coming from a popular uprising of the membership, but not through the theatrics of one member bent on personal aggrandizement.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by gluck

I agree Roy. Whether we like this person or not is irrelevant. The point is that this organization, a registered corporation, has the right to protect itself from those who might be on a personal crusade. Too, whether or not we would like to see O.A.H.I. gutted and it's inner workings and darkest secrets displayed for all to see, the reality is that we should not be surprised to see the corporation trying to protect itself from someone as destructive as has been evidenced.

I support full disclosure. I support this disclosure coming from a popular uprising of the membership, but not through the theatrics of one member bent on personal aggrandizement.

It is a Registered Non Profit Organization .
There is a difference,
To deprive the members of true information properly presented is another thing that did not happen.
Rules are ignored or not followed is far from correct.
To attack the whistle blower is not the best thing to do in my opinion.
It has been this way for many years just a very few have been out spoken and many members no longer attend meetings .
And a good % have just given up many have left the industry or the association because of the treatment they have seen others receive.
I support Cam fully and hope he is able to get enough support to have this settled once and for all.
Having been a member for some years and having communicated with many I might just know a little more then many others on how OAHI runs.
.... Cookie

[Claude Lawrenson]

Heck, when I was a director I was accused of "guilt by association". That in itself is an interesting "phrase". I was dismissed from a BOD meeting to have information about me discussed, without the right to defend myself in their presence.

In the end, on being called back to the meeting I called their bluff for my "official" removal from the BOD. The premise of the guilt by association was based on hearsay evidence presented by a vindictive member. I argued that I was elected by the members and had a right to attend BOD meetings. Earlier reference to the by laws indicates the grounds for removal. Sometimes people are judged by that reference - guilt by association. It should ring a bell to some of the complaints that have fallen off the track. Other times those personal biases surface and cause much of the tension.

[George A. H. Luck]

It is a Registered Non Profit corporation. In terms of legal obligations there is no difference.

[rwand1]

Legal Obligations? I don't think CAHPI-OAHI understands that concept.

Do you really think the minutes exist of that meeting?

Why would the CAFE forum administrator be instructed to remove Mr. Allens rebuttal as posted by Bill Mullen? Surely Mr. Allen who is a member in good standing, and found of no wrong doing, must be afforded the opportunity to explain his side, given Mr. Lloyd's communique.

This is more than a confidentiality agreement, this is a turf war between CAHPI-OAHI/NATIONAL and ego's.

[George A. H. Luck]

Right you are Ray! But it is still fun to watch

[rwand1]

There hasn't been this much fun since my pet pig ate my little sister!

[George A. H. Luck]

I see that there is great unrest on the "cafe" about this issue. I guess your past eventually catches up to you .

[rwand1]

Well at least Cam had good intentions in calling for an audit. Lets not overlook that, because he is right in calling for a full forensic audit. He is not the only voice calling for that, so kudos to him for having the caljones (sp) for doing so.

Remember Cam Allen and Gil Strachan all told us only a couple of years ago that everyone in Nachi Canada would join the National because it is a good thing and they fully endorsed it on behalf of us all! This edict was made without any consultation of Nachi Canada members. Needless to say that attempt went to hell in a hand basket.

Round 2.
Cam invites folks to come down and hear all about the National. Maybe some other tittilating info, and a plea for attendees to join the National because they need the members. Clearly this latest fiasco between Cam Allen and Mr. Lloyd speaks to the issues and fears of CAHPI-OAHI getting onside with the National.

Lets all wait and see what comes of the meeting Cam is going to host.

Lets also not forget that regardless whether you like Cam, there is the very serious matter of the manner in which he was disposed of, without recall by the members. No one has been able to substantiate via the by-laws that Mr. Lloyd and Directors acted within the confines of the rules. If Mr. Lloyd and party cannot follow the by-laws as has been repeatedly shown, how the hell does anyone outside/inside of OAHI or in Nachi expect to be treated fairly and ethically when you have this sort of negligence occurring with regard to the National. Some of these same people sit on CAHPI and OAHI Boards?

[George A. H. Luck]

Very true. I don't think that "personalities" and likes and dislikes should enter into it. However, let's also not forget that this person has a history of joining and destroying organizations. Look what happened to the Kingston OAHI group. Look what happened to the Eastern Ontario NACHI group. Look what happened with OAHI (twice). One can hardly blame those in power at OAHI, for being a little suspicious of his intent with a view to his past performances.

There are better ways of building a strong and vibrant organization than tearing it down and building it back up in ones own image. I hope that all ( if any) who attend the upcoming meeting realize that they are associating themselves with a person / group who have demonstrated their / his willingness to destroy all to gain a personal victory. Certainly a forensic audit at the very least is called for. But it must be called for by the membership in general not one grand standing appointed member.

Until that happens, this is just noise.

( I am of course referring to an un-named thrid party)

[rwand1]

I guess I must be the other grandstanding member calling for a forensic audit.

The fact is simple questions about the financial reporting are going unanswered. The audit committee doesn't have the answers, the lack of anyone to step into the Treasures roll is troubling considering Mr. Meipoom former president has temporarily filled the role.

Why would a self regulating body that considers itself to be superior be unable to provide the financial reports that it stated in a membership newsletter were available at CAHPI-OAHI office. That is a clear and outright lie, because when I went to the CAHPI-OAHI office to see the membership list, I also asked to see the financial info. I was told I was not permitted to see it. That's contrary to what CAHPI-OAHI promised and put in writing, contrary to the Corporations Act, contrary to the by-laws, and contrary to PR 158. So as you can see Mr. Lloyd and his directors are purposely playing lose and fast with the rules and apparently CAHPI/National isn't any better that ensuring a signatory to CAHPI is operating above board both financially, and regulartory wise. Some of these same players sit both in OAHI and CAHPI.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by gluck

Very true. I don't think that "personalities" and likes and dislikes should enter into it. However, let's also not forget that this person has a history of joining and destroying organizations. Look what happened to the Kingston OAHI group. Look what happened to the Eastern Ontario NACHI group. Look what happened with OAHI (twice). One can hardly blame those in power at OAHI, for being a little suspicious of his intent with a view to his past performances.

There are better ways of building a strong and vibrant organization than tearing it down and building it back up in ones own image. I hope that all ( if any) who attend the upcoming meeting realize that they are associating themselves with a person / group who have demonstrated their / his willingness to destroy all to gain a personal victory. Certainly a forensic audit at the very least is called for. But it must be called for by the membership in general not one grand standing appointed member.

Until that happens, this is just noise.

( I am of course referring to an un-named thrid party)

Gee George when I read your post unfortunatly it looks to me like ( "personalities" ) have entered into it.
A forensic audit has been brought up before .
I have a feeling you do not know how OAHI, CAHPI are run .
They have used intimadation for ever, and those who wish to stay a member and do inspection have seen how others who have spoke up are no longer part of these associations.
If you have read some of the posts on this BB you could see that some have tried to use this here and it has not worked .
They have then verbally attacked those who will not bend too their ways.

................. Cookie

[George A. H. Luck]

Roy, I am well aware of how OAHI is run and the personalities who run it. That is why I am not a member.

[rwand1]

George

I am still n RHI with OAHI and CAHPI, and member in good standing too. And I don't need no stinking American Express Card to prove it!