Gasoline Prices

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/i...ices_Chart.htm

http://www.oilandgasconfidential.com...de_Prices.html

So it was a little above $3 in 1970-71. Is that really what it was worth?

It was to those buying and selling it.

That's the way a free market works.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

It was to those buying and selling it.

That's the way a free market works.

until the vendors realized they were being paid too little for their products that were not renewable and someday would run out.

BTW, Did you ever notice the large jump in Saudi reserves around 1988-9 that stand to this day unexplained. The service industry and suppliers to drillers that worked in Saudi Arabia say they had no extra work/sales at that time so where did all the oil come from. The Saudis said they will increase production but it has had little effect on prices........conservation and efficiency may have a little effect but changes in habits and lowered expectations will have to become the norm as China, India and South America join the middle class.


China's car sales up nearly 18 pct in Jan.-April period
www.chinaview.cn 2008-05-09 18:00:13 Print


BEIJING, May 9 (Xinhua) -- Passenger car sales rose 17.84 percent year-on-year in the first four months of 2008, despite the effect of unusually severe winter weather, an industry group said on Friday.

According to the semi-official China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM), sales reached 2.46 million cars, including 1.81 million sedans, 75,500 mini-vans and 141,300 sport-utility vehicles.
Sales in April alone totaled 604,900 cars, up 10.83 percent from a year earlier but down 13.65 percent from March.
The figure for March was unusually large, representing the biggest year-on-year rise in seven months, as sales recovered from the extreme weather.
Volkswagen AG's two Chinese ventures -- FAW Volkswagen and Shanghai Volkswagen -- continued to top the sales list last month,as well as in the first four months.
Shanghai GM, the Detroit-based car maker's venture with Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp., sold the third-largest number of cars.
Domestic auto producers sold 463,100 sedans in the first four months, taking up a 25.46-percent share of total sedan sales.
Passenger car sales accounted for more than 70 percent of China's total auto sales.
Auto sales in China are expected to exceed 10 million units this year, which would represent full-year sales growth of 14 percent, CAAM said. China, the world's second-largest car market, produced 8.88 million automobiles last year, of which 8.79 million were sold. Auto sales have maintained double-digit growth since the beginning of the year, in contrast to weakening sales in much of the world as a result of the unfolding global credit crisis and soaring energy prices.


And that's just cars....what about energy for industry that is producing the wealth to allow most them to buy cars for the first time?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

And that's just cars....what about energy for industry that is producing the wealth to allow most them to buy cars for the first time?

Are you making the point that readily available energy is permitting the Chinese to enter the "middle class"?

Isn't that a good thing in China and India too or anyplace else for that matter?

Better start drilling digging and building Nuclear generation facilities too.

The more the merrier. The more energy available the better it is for the most people.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Are you making the point that readily available energy is permitting the Chinese to enter the "middle class"?

No, but that they will be competing for the readily available energy and keeping prices high or higher........probably a good thing in that high prices will encourage conservation world wide at some point helpig reduce pollution, etc.

Isn't that a good thing in China and India too or anyplace else for that matter?

IMO, not if at some point they aspire to having back yard pools, cottages, McMansions and have no regard for the environment, local or global.

Better start drilling digging and building Nuclear generation facilities too.

The more the merrier. The more energy available the better it is for the most people.

Maybe we should somehow put the energy, personal and physical, into the world's truly disadvantaged while we live with way more than any human should need as we know, but generally won't think about, others that are suffering and dieing.

BTW, as I type, my 18 year old daughter is doing volunteer work for 2 weeks in a remote small village (35 families) in Costa Rica. She paid her own way from weekend work during the school year; I paid for vaccinations and a few other small items. From a school of 1200+ students, only 10 took the opportunity......maybe shows where our priorities really are....kids learn from their parents!

For the rest of the summer, she's working 11-12 hours/day 7 days a week as a lifeguard/instructor in order to make up for wages lost while she's away.

[Michael Larson]

Constriction of the energy supply assures that the disadvantaged will never improve their lot in life even if they get out from under oppressive and/or corrupt governments.

My congratulations to your daughter. Well done!

Now teach her about economics and the reality of the need for cheap energy to improve the living standard of the masses.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Constriction of the energy supply assures that the disadvantaged will never improve their lot in life even if they get out from under oppressive and/or corrupt governments.

My congratulations to your daughter. Well done!

Now teach her about economics and the reality of the need for cheap energy to improve the living standard of the masses.

We'll have cheaper energy when the first world nations don't hog it all just because we can afford it and won't give it up. As Gluck said the other day: "I drive the speed limit because I am willing to pay for the privilege."

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

We'll have cheaper energy when the first world nations don't hog it all just because we can afford it and won't give it up. As Gluck said the other day: "I drive the speed limit because I am willing to pay for the privilege."

Dang liberals, always playing the "zero sum" game.

How about expanding the pie so more can participate.

[klott]

Are you making the point that readily available energy is permitting the Chinese to enter the "middle class"? Ken's words in blue this time.

No, but that they will be competing for the readily available energy and keeping prices high or higher........probably a good thing in that high prices will encourage conservation world wide at some point helpig reduce pollution, etc.

Isn't that a good thing in China and India too or anyplace else for that matter?

IMO, not if at some point they aspire to having back yard pools, cottages, McMansions and have no regard for the environment, local or global. In other words, more energy, more production, without any freedom to spend as they like, no benefits, no pleasures or enjoying the fruits of their labors! Sounds like a perfect society Brian, let's call it Communism! What do ya think?

Better start drilling digging and building Nuclear generation facilities too.

The more the merrier. The more energy available the better it is for the most people.

[Michael Larson]

And some continue to claim we are running out of oil and/or shouldn't drill for it.

Arctic May Hold 90 Billion Barrels of Oil, U.S. Says
By Joe Carroll
July 23 (Bloomberg)



-- The Arctic may hold 90 billion barrels of oil, more than all the known reserves of Nigeria, Kazakhstan and Mexico combined, and enough to supply U.S. demand for 12 years, the U.S. Geological Survey said.
One-third of the undiscovered oil is in Alaskan territory, the agency found in a study released today. By contrast, a geologic formation beneath the North Pole claimed by Russian scientists last year probably holds just 1.2 percent of the Arctic's crude, the U.S. report showed.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

And some continue to claim we are running out of oil and/or shouldn't drill for it.

Arctic May Hold 90 Billion Barrels of Oil, U.S. Says
By Joe Carroll
July 23 (Bloomberg)



-- The Arctic may hold 90 billion barrels of oil, more than all the known reserves of Nigeria, Kazakhstan and Mexico combined, and enough to supply U.S. demand for 12 years, the U.S. Geological Survey said.
One-third of the undiscovered oil is in Alaskan territory, the agency found in a study released today. By contrast, a geologic formation beneath the North Pole claimed by Russian scientists last year probably holds just 1.2 percent of the Arctic's crude, the U.S. report showed.

Don't count on it until it is discovered!!! And only 4 years US supply is in US territory!!! Going to be interesting when Pickens releases more of his plan.

Reminds me of a US comedian's comment on Middle East oil:

"How did all our oil get put under the sand over there!!"

[Michael Larson]

Drill away baby it's there.

Pickens plan will fail IMHO.
But it sure seems to lay well with the eviro waco crowd.
They love wind, maybe because they're so full of it.

The region above the Arctic Circle also holds an estimated 1,669 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, equal to 27 percent of the world's known gas reserves, the study showed. Almost 40 percent of the gas reserves are in Russia's West Siberia Basin.
About 84 percent of the oil and gas reserves probably lie offshore, the report showed. The region also has an estimated 44 billion barrels of natural-gas-liquids such as propane and butane, which are used by chemical producers, oil refiners and for home heating.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Drill away baby it's there.

But it won't be cheap. Probably as expensive as offshore in warmer climes.

Pickens plan will fail IMHO.
Should be looked at as part of a larger plan including conservation/efficiency/better public transit/ better municipal planning/lowered expectations/habit changes, etc.

But it sure seems to lay well with the eviro waco crowd.
They love wind, maybe because they're so full of it.

If I remember the ad, wind is only a part of the solution. He speaks of greater gas use...maybe for vehicles??

The region above the Arctic Circle also holds an estimated 1,669 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, equal to 27 percent of the world's known gas reserves, the study showed. Almost 40 percent of the gas reserves are in Russia's West Siberia Basin.
About 84 percent of the oil and gas reserves probably lie offshore, the report showed. The region also has an estimated 44 billion barrels of natural-gas-liquids such as propane and butane, which are used by chemical producers, oil refiners and for home heating.

Have to suffer a bit in the future until population "growth" stabilizes at about 8-9 billion and we see how we'll enable them to live like us (heaven forbid!!).

[Michael Larson]

What makes you think population will stabilize?

If the "new" oil isn't worth drilling now it will be later maybe.

Drill ANWAR. That's known and cost effective.

Natural gas for autos suffers from the same infrastructure issues as other potential energy sources for vehicles.

Lack of facilities to cost effectively and efficiently distribute the product.

We have had the better part of a century to develop the system for gasoline distribution.

Until the cost of oil becomes prohibitive or actually nearly unavailable, it's unlikely these newer sources can compete. Their start up and overhead cost are huge.

Pickens can build all the windmills he wants just don't beg for government subsidies or percentage mandates.

Let his investors take the risks. They will decide if its worth it.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

What makes you think population will stabilize?
As quality of life and education levels rise, populations tend to level off. Or do you think or wish for "no hope for the poor of the world to improve their lot".........oh, right, that'll screw up the profits of large multinationals who can exploit dirt cheap labour from uneducated people


If the "new" oil isn't worth drilling now it will be later maybe.
As one person said in a commentary on TV: "This global warming and melting Arctic ice cover will make it easier to get the oil" DUH!!!!!!

Drill ANWAR. That's known and cost effective.

Natural gas for autos suffers from the same infrastructure issues as other potential energy sources for vehicles.

Lack of facilities to cost effectively and efficiently distribute the product.

We have had the better part of a century to develop the system for gasoline distribution.

Don't we have gas running up and down the streets of most North American cities? Can't see huge costs to convert at the station level.

Until the cost of oil becomes prohibitive or actually nearly unavailable, it's unlikely these newer sources can compete. Their start up and overhead cost are huge.

Pickens can build all the windmills he wants just don't beg for government subsidies or percentage mandates.

Let his investors take the risks. They will decide if its worth it.

The head of OPEC had at one point predicted $170/bbl by the end of 2008. If that price is reached, a lot will become economic!!!

[Michael Larson]

The only thing you said worth addressing is the gas in the street.

I would like to see you fill a tank for your grille from the available pressures in the street.

Think about it.