Insuring Knob and Tube

[Joseph D. Skrypka]

A client asked me today if I knew of any insurance companies in Canada (Hamilton, Ontario) that will insure a property with K+T wiring. I know that some companies are more lenient than others and will insure if the K+T is in good condition, but I can't remember the company names.

If he purchases the property, he will definitely remove the K+T, but he's questioning how the current owner, who bought the house in 2004, could get the place insured. I explained that not all homes are inspected prior to purchase (pity), that not all inspectors will catch Knob and Tube, and that not all homeowners are 100 honest with their insurance companies.

Anyone know of insurance companies that will insure with live K+T wiring in place?

Thanks in advance.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jskrypka

A client asked me today if I knew of any insurance companies in Canada (Hamilton, Ontario) that will insure a property with K+T wiring. I know that some companies are more lenient than others and will insure if the K+T is in good condition, but I can't remember the company names.

If he purchases the property, he will definitely remove the K+T, but he's questioning how the current owner, who bought the house in 2004, could get the place insured. I explained that not all homes are inspected prior to purchase (pity), that not all inspectors will catch Knob and Tube, and that not all homeowners are 100 honest with their insurance companies.

Anyone know of insurance companies that will insure with live K+T wiring in place?

Thanks in advance.

I always write it up in my report .
I also write Recommend immediate complete upgrade by qualified person to the Homes electrical system.
I say to the client ourchasing a home is to find out who has the Insurance on the home now and ask if the new purchaser can continue on with the Home insurance.
I say if you get an argument with the insurance company to ask for coverage and that you will have it upgraded immediately ask for 90 day coverage hoping to get 60 day coverage and settle on 30 day coverage .
I have not had any of them call to say they did not get coverage .
Please keep us posted how this works out
...... Cookie

[Bruce M. Graham]

There are some but it is expensive and comes with a removal condition.

[phinsperger]

Last I heard, The co-operators will insure it with the sign off from an electrician but you may wish to contact them to make sure that policy is still in place.

[bjones1]

I found active K and T twice last year. Both clients used Co-Operators; one, they cooperated, one they didn't. Both clients signed an agreement to upgrade immediately.
Methinks it all depends on the prevailing mood at the time.

[aspisak]

http://www.daltontimmis.com/

Last I heard they were still insuring K&T in the Hamilton area

Allan

[rwand1]

Fwiw

Ontario Hydro has never condemned K&T.

Purchasers may be able to renew with vendors current insurer.
Remember in most cases K&T where exposed is likely in need of upgrading. It does not mean the whole house should be upgraded, this is a requirement with some insurers who are playing Code Authority.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Fwiw

Ontario Hydro has never condemned K&T.

Purchasers may be able to renew with vendors current insurer.
Remember in most cases K&T where exposed is likely in need of upgrading. It does not mean the whole house should be upgraded, this is a requirement with some insurers who are playing Code Authority.

The insurance Companies have done the same thing with
Fuse panels and oil tanks ,Not the Hydro or TSSA .
..... Cookie

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

I did an an inspection in a home that had 2 circuits K&T and the homeowner found a carrier that told him that they would insure him if there was less than 5% K&T wiring in the house. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

[Joseph D. Skrypka]

I've also heard of insurers giving some grace if there is a minor amount of K+T in the house. Just can't remember the names of the insurance companies.

I've also heard that if the exposed K+T in the basement is replaced and properly spliced to the K+T inside the walls, the insurers can also show some leniency. It still would have to be inspected by a licensed electrician or the ESA, who will often suggest the installation of GFCI's on these ungrounded K+T circuits.

Knob and Tube is very common in the older parts of Hamilton - I find it almost weekly. Unfortunately, when I find it in basements, the wires and insulation are typically deteriorated through physical abuse. I've seen it used as a clothes line, or as a nice support to hang skis across (I'm serious).

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Joe

I hope that you educated your clients about what not to hang on the K&T wiring!!!
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[George A. H. Luck]

The skis were probably wood or fibre glass, so what is the problem?

[Joseph D. Skrypka]

George - your sense of humour is like mine.

The skis in question were slalom skis with sharp metal edges..... yikes.

Mario - Yes there was a bit of an education session for both the prospective buyer and the vendor.

Thanks to all for their responses.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

Joe

I hope that you educated your clients about what not to hang on the K&T wiring!!!
</IMG>

Like do not use metal hangers to dry sweaters as they can stain the sweaters.
Good idea thanks, Mario........ Cookie

[Rob A. Parker]

I find alot of the small farm mutal insurance companies will insure K&t before any of the big companies will