NACHI proposes to adopt CAHPI NCP

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by rwand1

George

Your points go back to the Ohio Study wherein it was found that less than 2 percent of inspections where found to be inferior.

Just to clarify the 1.3% was the number of buyers that reported that the inspection had missed something they found later. We are human and we all make mistakes. The difference between the good guys and the bad guys is the good guys admit their mistake and make every effort to correct it. Being right 98.7% of the time is damn good and if you take responsibility for that 98.7% customer satification goes to 100% and it does not get better then that. In spit of what CAHPI says I believe all inspectors are responsible and trust worthy. NACHI members work to improve themselves. The popularity of this board is ample evidence of this.

I am sorry Grandfathering is very practical. Any inspector who has been around for awhile or acts as an expert witness against contractors and other inspectors cannot be considered to be inferior. Grandfathering is not liked because its to expedient and does not allow for the association to charge for review. The lack of grandfathering is just another excuse to make money for reviewing those that are truly qualified.

In some of the states that implemented licensing they called for the inspector to have been in the business for three years and had completed a minimum number of inspections.

[rwand1]

Again I will rebutt the 2% figure. Page 68 of the Ohio - Home Inspector Licensure Study states "Ohio homeowners rate the home inspector they dealt with 7.7 on a scale of 1 to 10 on accuracy of the inspection report, while real estate agents from licensing survey states rated home inspectors 8.3 for report accuracy". Thats 77% or 83% - or a far distance from 98%.

That at least to me - is a good enough reason why grandfathering can be misleading and unfair.

Its a moot point considering we have already heard about one National Cert holder not being able to ascertain copper from Aluminum.

Just because one is a National Certificate holder does not equate with competence. One cannot deny experience. Look up "grandfathering provisions" on Google.

The arguements thus far in disfavour of grandparenting are not compelling, since CAHPI/National has no legislation and is completely voluntary, and the fact that OAHI in Ontario has quasi legislation.

[rwand1]

Brett

Who says you're qualified? A non legislated, self governing body, thats who! If no one joins CAHPI and partakes your Certification will be meaningless ole boy.
Besides I have already proved my competence within OAHI and ASHI.

Grandfathering is not about being freightened about making the grade, they are two seperate issues in my humble opinion.

[rwand1]

Don't get me wrong Grandfathering should not be a cake walk. Yes there have to be limits.

(i.e.)

1. Applying members must already be in an Association for a minimum 6 months.

2. College accreditied Home Inspection course graduates would be grandfathered

3. Grandparenting is only open for a six month period, after that any applicant must be college accredited, or be a fully accredited within another self regulating association.

This is our chance to make things right and to do it right. We need everyones input, we do not need dictorial processes, nor do we need to make it an exclusive club. We all can see what the short comings have been lets build it right and they will come. We need to operate this matter under democratic principals and under by-laws.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Vern we are talking about two very different issues here. My post stated and is taken directly from the report -

the Ohio - Home Inspector Licensure Study states "Ohio homeowners rate the home inspector they dealt with 7.7 on a scale of 1 to 10 on accuracy of the inspection report, while real estate agents from licensing survey states rated home inspectors 8.3 for report accuracy".

I would tend to believe that accuracy of the inspection report and the survey results from the homeowner and also the real estate agent is a major factor is the credibility of the profession.

I fail to see how that is distorting the facts, when it is taken from the same report and clearly stated on page 68.

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Vern we are talking about two very different issues here. My post stated and is taken directly from the report -

I would tend to believe that accuracy of the inspection report and the survey results from the homeowner and also the real estate agent is a major factor is the credibility of the profession.

I fail to see how that is distorting the facts, when it is taken from the same report and clearly stated on page 68.

What you quoted is to show that there is a difference in perception between the realtor and the buyer. How do you know wheather or not realtor was disastified because the report caused the realtor to have to do more work to satisfiy the buyer.

From the Ohio state study page 57

Section 2.3

Data Analysis

Real Estate Agent Survey

Question 14: Rank the home inspectors you've worked with in the past year on a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being worst and 10 being best): Satisfaction of client

Null Hypothesis: There is no difference between the levels of customer satisfaction ratings in licensing versus non-licensing states.
Alternate Hypothesis: Customer satisfaction ratings are higher for licensing states. Level of Significance: 0.05

t-Test: Two Sample Assuming Equal Variances

Conclusion. -
Since the p-value of 0.3975 is greater than the level of significance 0.05, we accept the null hypothesis.
There does not appear to be a difference in how real estate agents rate the satisfaction of home inspection clients in licensing versus non-licensed states.

The same result was reported from the buyer. No statical difference in satification between licenced and non licenced states.

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Vern we are talking about two very different issues here. My post stated and is taken directly from the report -

I would tend to believe that accuracy of the inspection report and the survey results from the homeowner and also the real estate agent is a major factor is the credibility of the profession.

I fail to see how that is distorting the facts, when it is taken from the same report and clearly stated on page 68.

From the page 68 Ohio state study

Section 2.3

Data Analysis

Summary -

The raw survey data shows little overall difference between states with home inspection licensing and those without. The intention of this statistical analysis was to determine if the small difference that may exist is significant for comparable numeric data. In virtually every case, the difference was not significant.
In cases where the data is not statistically different, the following conclusions can be drawn:

• Real estate agents in licensing and non-licensing survey states both:
o said approximately 15% of home inspection reports they've seen are inadequate
o said approximately 13% of homeowners have later discovered problems with their home despite having had a home inspection
o rated home inspectors they've dealt with between 8 and 8.5 (on a scale of 1 to 10) on knowledge of building construction, accuracy of the inspection report, professionalism of the inspection report, and overall client satisfaction.

• Home inspectors from both licensing and non-licensing survey states both:
o perform an average of 211 home inspections per year
o devote between 2 3/< and 3 hours to a home inspection
o completed an average of 18'/2 hours of continuing education last year.
• Approximately 66% of home inspectors in both licensing and non-licensing survey states are full-time home inspectors.
• Approximately 52% of home inspectors in both licensing and non-licensing survey states carry Errors & Omissions Insurance.
• Ohio homeowners rated the home inspector they used the same as real estate agents from licensing survey states on knowledge of building construction and the professionalism of the inspection report.
In the few cases where the data did show a significant statistical difference, the following conclusions can be drawn:
• Home inspectors in non-licensing survey states have performed an average of 134 more inspections in their career than home inspectors in licensing survey states.
• Ohio homeowners rated the home inspector they dealt with 7.7 on a scale of 1 to 10 on the accuracy of the inspection report, while real estate agents from licensing survey states rated home inspectors 8.3 for report accuracy.
• Ohio homeowners rated the home inspector they dealt with 7.7 on a scale of 1 to 10 on their overall satisfaction, while real estate agents from licensing survey states rated client satisfaction 8.5.

If you are going to present the information it is your feduricy responsibility as a licenced instructor to present the whole story. That is if you are certified teacher?

[rwand1]

My survey results collected over 14 years of inspecting show that my clients are very happy with my inspection, and that leads me to speculate that my clients are very happy with their agent(s) who have recommended my services.

Agents don't tend to recommend inferior inspectors unless those inspectors are white washers and inspect to the agents liking as to collect their commission.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by bbernier

I completed the NCP last year as one of the BATA applicants NC#00025. I am a journeyman carpenter with over 20 years experience in residential construction and have numerous certifications and diplomas that compliment my home inspection business. My working and educational background was thoroughly checked, as well as my inspections that had been completed to date. At no time did I ever think that I should be able to grandfather the NCP due to life experience, and was more than happy to exercise my ability as a competant home inspector by successfully completing the NCP. I do not qualify as a CMI because the total of my home inspections and continuing education credits does not add up to 1000 hours as of yet. What about my 4 year apprenticeship as a carpenter and thousands of hours of on the job work experience? Doesn't this qualify me as a CMI? Can't I jump on the ol' grandfather bandwagon, too?

I do not believe in the grandfather clause for two important reasons.
(1) A working apprenticeship, so to speak, must be completed in order to ascertain the proper knowledge and practical qualifications.
(2) This knowledge and skill must be demonstrated to a group of your peers for evaluation in order to determine a pre-conceived competence level.
Any one can say they are more than qualified to be a home inspector. But they should be have to prove it before a panel of their peers. There are too many so called "Certified" individuals parading around as home inspectors that have no business doing so. This is why our industry's image has suffered over the years. The only way to improve our image as home inspectors is for everyone, including you Raymond, to demonstrate their competence in the field. If the "grandfathers" in our industry are outraged, then it only confirms everyone's suspicions that they are only afraid of not making the grade. Prove your competence and all suspicions will be laid to rest.

Regards,

Congratulations, Brett.

You have earned and received the only valid, credible, defensible National credential in the country. It is recognized and accepted by governments and national organizations and will help you immensely in your future.

I also credit you for having faith in your fellow man that you would be treated fairly and with respect.

Bill Mullen RHI
#NCA00001

[rwand1]

BCIPI seems to be left out of the equation in BC, considering there is a move to licence home inspectors in BC, the National looks like it will be irrelevant given that BCIPI is a public authority enacted by legislation.

[rwand1]

Home & Property Inspection Services Act - British Columbia
http://www.cahpi.bc.ca/miscellaneous...egislation.pdf

5 megabytes in size.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by bmullen1

Congratulations, Brett.

You have earned and received the only valid, credible, defensible National credential in the country. It is recognized and accepted by governments and national organizations and will help you immensely in your future.

I also credit you for having faith in your fellow man that you would be treated fairly and with respect.

Bill Mullen RHI
#NCA00001

Its called selective answers Bill you answer what you feel like and ignore what you do not like all I can say is shame on you and CAHPI .
Below is a question that has been evaded by you and CAHPI since last year.
This is sure far from a proper way to treat the Canadian home inspectors ..
NACHI Member

User Name: gromicko
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 5,768


Re: Important info on the National Certification
Tell them.
--
Nick Gromicko, CMI
Founder
World's biggest, best inspection association
"PlanetNACHI... resistance is futile"

gromickoView Public ProfileVisit gromicko's Web siteFind all posts by gromickoAdd gromicko to Your Buddy List

#13
2/2/07, 2:09 PM
Roy D. Cooke vbmenu_register("postmenu_155612", true);
Roys Home Inspection
NACHI Member

User Name: rcooke
Location: Brighton, ON
Posts: 4,002


Re: Important info on the National Certification
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmullen1
Roy:

If all you can do is talk in riddles instead of asking a straight out question like others have been doing, I can't give you any answers. Maybe you should check your medications.

Maybe if someone with some authority had asked CAHPI to tell its members about the offer that you, who holds no position with NACHI offered, it would have been taken seriously. However, I have no idea what the reaction would be, since I am but one of many on the board of directors.

Bill Mullen

Gee Bill ,Unfortunately you have again shown how little you know of NACHI.
You see an association that is many times larger then all the Canadian associations that runs so much more efficiently.
NACHI has many who do much for the Organization and all work well together.
You really can not expect NICK to do it all.
As per usual you have shown your ignorance and proper protocol should have made you or Mike the CAHPI pres to at least made a reply.
This attitude shows what a small self appointed group thinking they can run a National Certification will end up doing.
Your insults on medication shows you just might be the wrong choice to try and present the National Certification.
Your many past failures and this one do not look good for you and your lack of abilities.
I expect I again will be proved correct.

Roy Cooke A happy NACHI member

Added later as you know Bill NICK is a man of few words . There is your answer above
,RoyCooke

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by rcooke

Its called selective answers Bill you answer what you feel like and ignore what you do not like all I can say is shame on you and CAHPI .
Below is a question that has been evaded by you and CAHPI since last year.
This is sure far from a proper way to treat the Canadian home inspectors ..
NACHI Member

Roy Cooke A happy NACHI member

Added later as you know Bill NICK is a man of few words . There is your answer above
,RoyCooke

Roy:

All I have done is congratulate one of your fellow NACHI members. I fail to see the harm in that, but somehow you have allowed your hatred to spew forth way off topic.

It's too bad you aren't man enough to show Brett the kind of respect he deserves and congratulate him yourself.

Bill Mullen

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by bmullen1

Roy:

All I have done is congratulate one of your fellow NACHI members. I fail to see the harm in that, but somehow you have allowed your hatred to spew forth way off topic.

It's too bad you aren't man enough to show Brett the kind of respect he deserves and congratulate him yourself.

Bill Mullen

NB

Bill you continue to try and spread false information I do not have any hatred in my body for any person.
I do have dislike though.
One of my serious dislikes is your continue evading giving answers .
You come onto the NACHI site and have shown your distates for NACHI from the get go .
Nachi has done nothing but be nice to you and CAHPI .
Why do you and CAHPI not have the courtesy to give an answer to an obvious great offer to CAHPI and its members .
I am very embarrassed for all home inspectors to see how there is definitely Discrimination shown to NACHI in so many ways by some CAHPI leaders.

Roy Cooke A HAPPY NACHI member

[rwand1]

Vern

You still haven't clarified whether your initial post is a working agreement between CAHPI and NACHI or whether NACHI is proposing its own National Certification.

Thanks,