It's cold in Canada, learn how to inspect fireplaces...

[dcook1]

Originally Posted by cboyd

Good one Nick, thanks for the show. We got to let the fire out in the igloo this week and hung up the mukluks. Now it's 2 months of bad snowmobiling.

Charles,
The weather is never too bad for snowmobiling!

Every summer when it is pouring rain in the middle of July, my buddies and I will go out and run the sleds down a wet grass field to give them some exersize. (And to have fun!)
We never have to cut the grass in that area for the rest of the summer.

[dcook1]

Originally Posted by gromicko

And if you are W.E.T.T. certified in Canada, make sure you add it to www.nachi.org/ancillary.htm so that you show up in www.InspectorLocator.com and other places InterNACHI controls.

And make sure you charge for the WETT inspection. As we know some inspectors who do not know the value of education just "throw in a WETT inspection for free"

It is like the sign on a snowmobile shop read....."If you have a $10 head, then buy a $10 helmet."

Knowledge is power.

[Steven R. Butts]

Originally Posted by dcook1

One of the important things to remember in Canada, is you should be WETT certified to inspect a fireplace or solid fuel burning appliance.
Most insurance companies demand a WETT inspection now.

As a long time W.E.T.T. certified inspector I thought I should add my two cents worth. Anyone with the required knowledge can and should inspect wood burning appliances to some degree during a home inspection, it is a safety issue after all. The W.E.T.T. certification is what the insurance companies are demanding when providing insurance to a client with a wood burning appliance. A site-built (masonry) fireplace usually does not require a W.E.T.T. certified inspection, although factory-built units do, but this of course depends on the insurance company. I have even seen insurance comapanies ok a free-standing wood stove with no W.E.T.T. inspection, so go figure. The bottom line is that if you are going to inspect and report on a wood burning appliance you have to know what you are doing because peoples lives could be at stake.
P.S. I always charge for a W.E.T.T. inspection on a pre-purchse inspection. The inspection is 'free' (price included) for a pre-sale inspection, which I must say don't seem to be popular enough in this area. Marketing, marketing, marketing!

[George A. H. Luck]

I have seen some local insurance people demand a WETT on a gas fired insert and on a stand alone gas fired stove. It is just another way the insurance industry has of trying to download responsibility!
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[wblakey]

The TV episodes are getting better and better. Keep up the good work!

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by dcook1

One of the important things to remember in Canada, is you should be WETT certified to inspect a fireplace or solid fuel burning appliance.
Most insurance companies demand a WETT inspection now.

Technically and probably legally speaking, WETT certification only is not for wood burning fireplaces and other masonry items. That is the domain of the certified bricklayer (mason). There is some crossover from WETT inspectors into the masonry field as they are usually the ones to use chimney inspection cameras. The best is to have certification in both fields.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by gluck

I have seen some local insurance people demand a WETT on a gas fired insert and on a stand alone gas fired stove. It is just another way the insurance industry has of trying to download responsibility!
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And not have to pay their own inspectors!!! Again, WETT certification does not cover gas inspections; that is the job of a certified gasfitter.

[Wand Raymond]

Brian Like everything else I have seen some big blunders by so called WETT certified inspectors. Most render opinions on fireplace chimneys without sweeping.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Like to stay and chat, Wand Raymond. Just taking a break from a litigation report that I promised to emaileby 2:00 this PM and then have an inspection at 4:00. Be back on late tonight though!

[dcook1]

Originally Posted by Wand Raymond

Brian Like everything else I have seen some big blunders by so called WETT certified inspectors. Most render opinions on fireplace chimneys without sweeping.

Raymond,
You made a good point here. If you cannot see it, how can you say it is safe to use?

I did an inspection the other week and the seller was supopsed to provide the WETT inspection. The agent told me they had their inspector look at it and he had okayed everything and was dropping the paper off at her office the next day. The wood stove had a metal chimney that had 3/4 inch of creosote insde it. The masonry fireplace had a metal insert for a liner. It was warped and split in two places. Someone had put some kind of cement over the split areas. I advised the agent as well as the buyer this firebox should be replaced before use. The agent told me the inspector said "some would recomend replacing it, but they had used the right kind of cement to repair it, and this cement would recertify the firebox, and it could be used."
I left her and told the buyer this unit could not be considered as certified and needed to be replaced for safety and not to use it untill they replaced it.
I knew the buyer would not listen to me, so I showed him where I wrote my recomendations on the report and left it with them.
A chimney sweep I know had the same issue with this company. They advised on a wood stove and chimney that was full of creosote. When the sweep cleaned it he took pictures of the hole and advised them to replace the entire unit.
The buyer complained to the inspection company who then sent a letter to the sweep demanding he stop telling the client the equip[ment should be replaced. The sweep called the lawyer and sent him the pictures. Two weeks later the client called advising the inspection company replaced the stove and chimney.

WETT should have a complaint department to rectify the inspectors who only inspect for money,,,, not for safety.

Personally I am a WETT certified inspector as well hold a journeyman ticket for masonry, and built about a thousand fireplaces. I am fully qualified to look at all types solid fuel appliances.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by dcook1

Raymond,
You made a good point here. If you cannot see it, how can you say it is safe to use?

I did an inspection the other week and the seller was supopsed to provide the WETT inspection. The agent told me they had their inspector look at it and he had okayed everything and was dropping the paper off at her office the next day. The wood stove had a metal chimney that had 3/4 inch of creosote insde it. The masonry fireplace had a metal insert for a liner. It was warped and split in two places. Someone had put some kind of cement over the split areas. I advised the agent as well as the buyer this firebox should be replaced before use. The agent told me the inspector said "some would recomend replacing it, but they had used the right kind of cement to repair it, and this cement would recertify the firebox, and it could be used."
I left her and told the buyer this unit could not be considered as certified and needed to be replaced for safety and not to use it untill they replaced it.
I knew the buyer would not listen to me, so I showed him where I wrote my recomendations on the report and left it with them.
A chimney sweep I know had the same issue with this company. They advised on a wood stove and chimney that was full of creosote. When the sweep cleaned it he took pictures of the hole and advised them to replace the entire unit.
The buyer complained to the inspection company who then sent a letter to the sweep demanding he stop telling the client the equip[ment should be replaced. The sweep called the lawyer and sent him the pictures. Two weeks later the client called advising the inspection company replaced the stove and chimney.

WETT should have a complaint department to rectify the inspectors who only inspect for money,,,, not for safety.

Personally I am a WETT certified inspector as well hold a journeyman ticket for masonry, and built about a thousand fireplaces. I am fully qualified to look at all types solid fuel appliances.

David:

Although there is no formal "complaint dept", you can lodge a complaint against a certified individual simply by sending a letter to WETT headquarters or the local WETT chapter. WETT will have to respond a complaint or they start losing credibility with insurance companies and Fire Marshall's offices who presently respect and recommend WETT certifed companies.

During my period when I was more involved with WETT as both a national and local chapter board member, we dealt with a few complaints. The results of one issue in Ontario was shocking to the individual as we pulled his WETT certification for 2 year after which he had to re-take all the courses again and pass all exams! I was told he lost about 1/2 of his work during that period. There is no sense in having a respected designation if you are not going to uphold a high standard of workmanship and professional practice. In the above case, the individual compromised both items.

I routinely point to WETT as a better example of how to run an organization. Although not perfect and it's had real tough times when it almost folded, it seems to have risen above all and survived. The daily workings are run by a professional company that specializes in running smaller orgs like WETT who cannot afford to hire fulltime staff, etc. The folks in the office have no personal interest, conflicts with, or political aspirations in WETT and the wood heating industry so personalities and personal financial interests don't enter into or interfere with the day-to-day workings. We did have to change the managing comany during my terms but WETT has been with the current firm for 9-10 years now. As our local HI chapter grows here, I have suggested regularly that we move to that operational format so members are freed from keeping the books and controlling the financial records, etc in their homes. Sometimes they don't have the time to keep everything current and we have to trust that everything is on the up and up.

[Wand Raymond]

David and or Brian, Does WETT have a set of bylaws, and procedures in place for audits, and discipline?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by Wand Raymond

David and or Brian, Does WETT have a set of bylaws, and procedures in place for audits, and discipline?

Now you're asking me to remember 10+ years ago. If I remember there were no bylaws but weak policy statements. I didn't deal with the mentioned case directly.....Ont WETT org did in consultation with national. I believe it was also the first time a WETT certification was taken from someone.

[Shane Aldworth]

Originally Posted by Wand Raymond

David and or Brian, Does WETT have a set of bylaws, and procedures in place for audits, and discipline?

WETT does have a standardize inspection form that can be used, but that decision in relation to the inspection report (not a certification) is left up to the inspector. What is used as a "standard" is called the "reference manual wood energy technical training" this is the building code reference manual, along with this is a reference book B365-01 installation code for solid fuel burning appliances and equipment

What is basically reported in the report is in relation to the installation of the appliance or equipment, and if it is installed to "code" or does not meet the code installation,

In relation to if an appliance is certification or non-certified, a certified appliance has an identification "manufacturers" label on the appliance, no label on appliance will id the appliance as non-certified", but just because an appliance is not certified, it can still pass as long as the appliance meets the installation requirements for a non-certified appliance.

in relation to the chimney inspections and their condition, myself when a call comes in for a booking, I advise that the chimney be cleaned out before hand, and the appliance not be in use, and at room temperature, if the clean out is not possible due to a short closing... then I inspect the appliance accordingly and also in the report I state my limitation to the inspection of the chimney due to non cleaning, and state that the appliance should not be used until the chimney has been cleaned out and properly inspected.

[Romanian Asshole]

In Romania we don't have WETT or NACHI!