meaningless “Designations” awarded by the various associations

[Joe Farsetta]

As it becomes easier to become a 'Home Inspector' with various 'Certifications' more and more people will see it as a fast way to make big money. In turn this encourages the birth of many more 'course providers' with more and more questionable credentials.

Does this statement mean that you wont seak a Certified Commercial Inspector designation from our class, Bill?

Part of the National Certification Program has been to Accredit course providers who teach according the the National Occupational Standards.

Bill, do you have an financial interest, either directly or indirectly with this so-called "National Certification"? It's all you seem to talk about these days.

As far as I can tell, by front ending our membership requirements, having a decent test, requiring mandatory courses for continued membership, requiring lots of CEU hours for continued membership, and initially sponsoring a program of excellence including even higher levels of experience and continuing education... there seems to ALREADY be a national certification program in effect. It's called InterNACHI.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Does this statement mean that you wont seak a Certified Commercial Inspector designation from our class, Bill?

Joe: Your course is not a Home Inspection course. I have no idea if you are accredted to provide a certification or not and it really doesn't matter to me. I have heard that the information is good and delivered well, and that's all I look for at this point in my life. I always like to learn more, so I look forward to learning at this session. If I don't you will be the first to know.



Bill, do you have an financial interest, either directly or indirectly with this so-called "National Certification"? It's all you seem to talk about these days.
Far from it. I volunteer my time and my money to it. It's a valid, worthwhile program that has received recognition from many influential entities in Canada. I am not going to argue its merits or warts with you because those words have been mentioned a million times. It's something I believe in strongly, and that's my right.

As far as I can tell, by front ending our membership requirements, having a decent test, requiring mandatory courses for continued membership, requiring lots of CEU hours for continued membership, and initially sponsoring a program of excellence including even higher levels of experience and continuing education... there seems to ALREADY be a national certification program in effect. It's called InterNACHI.

We will have to agree to disagree.

See you soon.

Bill Mullen

[George A. H. Luck]

Posted by a member in another thread. Equally applicable here in Canada as it is in The United States.


Dear Realtors:

Lets all be adults and quit tap dancing around the flag pole, with all the BS, lies and deception. Lifes too short, its a slow real estate market and we all need to be out promoting our business - not telling fairy tales or playing childish like games with each other. Lets conceed to several facts of life.

1) There is no huge consumer outcry for LICENSING of Home Inspectors.
2) This is not about protecting the consumer at all (well maybe 5% of it is).
3) Its about a lot of special interests - starting with you, the Realtors.
4) You want to manipulate and control our industry. You think if we're all
licensed you can do this. You foolishly or mistakenly think if we're
licensed we'll all say the same thing; we'll only tell a buyer the plumbing
pipes are not leaking and we won't tell him that Polybutylene has been
involved in class action lawsuits and recommend he research it further on
the web - Boy are you wrong.
5) You feel that with licensing AND maybe mandatory E & O insurance in play
that you can keep referring cheesy/sleasy Harold that does 75 minute
inspections, is really cheap AND if **** hits the fan YOU can now act
surprised and UTTER "Well the state said he was qualified, how was I to
know different. He does have insurance you know". Then off you go ...
6) Bottom line for Realtors, its about Control & Shifting Liability!!

Then we got the other players:

7) The HI group that wants to own/control the world.
The group that sell/lease tests.
9) The newbies that think licensing gives them validity.
10) The oldbies that are losing market-share, aren't good in the market sack
and see this as a way to "fence me in & fence them out".
11) The power monger HI's that forsee themselves as the "State HI Board".
12) The multi-state HI Trainers, trying to cut everybody else out.
13) The insurance companies - if we gotta have insurance for a license their
business goes up (and so does our fees).
14) The trial attorneys - enough said about their reasons.
15) The legislators - Realtors and other groups are throwing $$$$$ and votes
their way in many states to get us licensed EVEN if they see no need.
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[rwand1]

How convienent that some keep overlooking the fact that some self regulating home inspection associations can't self regulate and instead become a closed door, paranoid clique that is free to do as they please regardless of the laws. You have to look no further than why licencing is required in Ontario. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, not all non licencing rethoric fits the mould.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rwand1

How convienent that some keep overlooking the fact that some self regulating home inspection associations can't self regulate and instead become a closed door, paranoid clique that is free to do as they please regardless of the laws. You have to look no further than why licencing is required in Ontario. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, not all non licencing rethoric fits the mould.

Well if we get licensing in Ontario .
I guess we then become like ever other Place that has gone this direction .
All home inspectors will then be equal the person who has done inspection for 15 years and taken many continuing education courses and the one who just took the 10 day P2P Instant (now you are an Inspector Course).
Sorry I do not see any advantage in Ontario Granting a license.

...Cookie

[rwand1]

Consider licencing the enema that is need to clean out the colon of OAHI!

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Consider licencing the enema that is need to clean out the colon of OAHI!

Raymond!!!!!!

[Bill Mullen]

Unfortunately, in almost every State that has licensing, the requirements have been reduced to the 'lowest common denominator'.

The numbers of inspectors in those states have doubled in some cases because it's so easy to become 'licensed.'

At that point Home Inspection no longer is a profession, it is a commodity, and this is where I agree with Nick. Licensing will help associations that do good marketing flourish.

Unfortunately the people who decide on licensing requiremembst are politicians. The number one priority for politicians is to get re-elected. To do this they have to appeal to the largest number of voters possible. Therefore, it's politically unwise to make it too hard to get into any occupation. One they get involved, everything gets watered down.

Bill Mullen

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Raymond!!!!!!

Thanks Raymond many a true word said in Jest and this is exactly what is needed .
...Cookie

[rwand1]

At that point Home Inspection no longer is a profession, it is a commodity, and this is where I agree with Nick. Licensing will help associations that do good marketing flourish.

Its not anymore a commodity than inspectors entering the field without licencing because you have inspector schools, colleges turning them out enmass.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Its not anymore a commodity than inspectors entering the field without licencing because you have inspector schools, colleges turning them out enmass.

The only way to make it less of a commodity and more of a profession is to have realistic but high levels of proven competence. Now if a licensing body adopted verifiable and documented high educational, training and experience standards, a strong Code of Ethics, and continuing education requirements we could have the best of both worlds.

Along with that goes a system to assess course curriculi from institutions that want to teach courses and and strong, verifiable and credible accreditation system to ensure they actually teach the right things.

Bill Mullen

[Joe Farsetta]

Mr. Mullen,

The purpose of licensing any profession is to establish MINIMUM standards and qualifications for entry into said profession. That being said, it is ILLEGAL to set the bar so high as to arbitrarily BAN entry into said profession.

Data collected long ago established a direct link between, say, faulty workmanship on the part of an electrician or plumber and the public safety. Doctors and nurses, professional engineers, architects, etc... the list continues.

But for the home inspector, there has NEVER been a credible link between a bad home inspection and anything more than civil penalties. Even the bad municipal building inspector is exempt from prosecution and financial liability, providing there is no corruption taking place.

So here we have licensing... and "national certification". Its all a load of crap. You know it. I know it. We all know it.

Absent of a real need, with data justifying it, one would be hard-pressed to argue the merits of licensing our industry. We will always have the incompetents. Every profession does.

But back to the minimum standards... that is all that licensing ever guarantees; a MINIMUM level of competency. Associations, such as InterNACHI can raise the bar, but a governmental body is subject to challenge. They know this, which is why they are wary of following the advice of those with a certain bent toward the industry. They are also accutely aware of the possibility of virtual influence peddling from HI members sitting, or in control of, governmantal programs or boards.

[Bill Mullen]

Mr. Farsetta: (my, we are formal today !)

Even MINIMUM standards have to be realistic. Nobody said they had to be so high that they were too difficult. If the MINIMUM standard to be a licensed Home Inspector is that you have two eyes and a pulse, that certainly would make access easy for all. But that is not realistic.

National Certification is not crap.......on the contrary, it is what will give the Canadian industry credibility. You are welcome to your uninformed opinion but in reality, the NCP is now the strongest credible inspection group in the country and it is growing quickly. More importantly, its acceptance and recognition is spreading like wildfire.

Bill Mullen

[George A. H. Luck]

"More importantly, its acceptance and recognition is spreading like wildfire."

Hmmmm, reruns on the Sci-Fi channel again?



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[Joe Farsetta]

Bill,

Remember that minimum standards are just that. Some education and experience, and perhaps a test or some type. Licensing guarantees MORE inspectors, never less. So, be careful what you wish for. When you unwrap that package, you may find a pile of crap instead of a diamond necklace.

I hear that the National Certification is pretty much dead, except in the eyes of those pushing for it. The majority of posts you make on this message board mention the credibility, effectiveness, reality, validity, and necessity of this so-called National Certification program.

Who cooked it up, originally?
What association affilliations did they or do they have?
Who controls it?
Which provences embrace it?
What will it do for an inspector who chooses to go that route, as opposed to simply belonging to iNACHI, OAHI, or any other org?.

And please DONT tell me that it over-arches all associations because of it's neutrality, and please DONT tell me that it's mere existence does not afford opportunity for influence peddling and corruptions, and ultimately... association BIAS.

We, here in the states, know all too well where some of this stuff winds up. Wolves in sheeps clothing.

And Bill... I challenge you to refrain from mentioning any associations or national initiatives or certifications in your next 250 posts on this message board... if you can