More about BC Licensing

[lolsen]

Ray you are right about the NC as well.

I will admit that I do not know the right answer but feel that status quo might be the answer right now until somebody gets a great idea or can improve the licensing that is in progress.

Lawrence

[rwand1]

Hi Lawrence,

If you research court cases there are more complaints than just 3 a lot more. Nor are there records kept for cases which are reported only to the inspection association, or settled between complainant and inspector, or those where the inspector screwed up but the complainant didn't take it further.

I am glad to hear that professional societies in Alberta do not have the same troubling problems as we in Ontario. Believe me its quite a mess down east here.

Cheers,

[rwand1]

Claude the issue is not raising the bar, we really don't have any bars now and look at the mess. To me licencing is required to address concerns that exists in home inspection associations which self regulate. If there is no outside oversite there is no guarantee that members let alone the public get a fair shake out of the deal. Currently the DPPC of OAHI has very limited powers to discipline or aid or assure the public that the proper course of action has been applied.

[Roy D. Cooke, #5]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Set the bar high enough and it will rule out a rush into the field!!! In my province, I don't see everyone rushing into the electrical, carpentry and plumbing fields as they have to really study, pass supervised papers and work in the field for 50 and upward weeks. As a matter of fact, last fall the carpenters union started offering FREE training to entice people to enter the field!!! Crazy!!! What do these people want next .....free tools, free truck....free everything?? Make it cheap and easy and everyone will think they can be a home inspector!!! Isn't that what happens here and with other diploma mills most of the time???

Why is there so high a failure rate (80-90%) for new inspectors??? Because the mills need new fodder for profit year after year. Promise suckers big $$$$$ and they join the slaughter!! They really don't care if the trainees make it or not.......there's more suckers at the front door to "train".....let's get'um through!!

Our local chapter of CAHPI (4 Atlantic provinces covered) has only grown by 12-15 or so additional members (3 in NS, most from outside my own province) in the last 2-3 years while I have found that there are are least 11-12+ new home inspectors in the province!!! (Where did they get trained??) It takes about 2-3+ years at least before anyone can hope to get the full training and other requirements under their belt (it took a 25+ year retired municipal inspector 2 years)......and it's going to get more stringent: on the table now is a 1 year probationary period for new members. Paying your $$$$ does not assure anything here!!!!!
http://www.cahpi-atl.com/visitors/inspector.php


There are others who have applied to get in but have to wait until they meet minimum criteria just to be considered a student/applicant inspector. Meet the criteria and they'll gladly accept you. And when the topic comes up at meetings, I push for more rigorous training!!! IMHO, the SOP's that we work with are 30+ years old and don't really cut it with today's houses and the public's expectations.

Brian you are talking about Licensed Trades .
Have you any experience how the Government handled it when the brought in Licensing with The Carpenters Plumbers Electricians.Auto Mechanics.
I have some experienced how they handled it in Ontario and would love to know your experience in how it was done

Thanks >Roy Cooke

[rwand1]

Brian opined:

Our local chapter of CAHPI (4 Atlantic provinces covered) has only grown by 12-15 or so additional members (3 in NS, most from outside my own province) in the last 2-3 years while I have found that there are are least 11-12+ new home inspectors in the province!!! (Where did they get trained??) It takes about 2-3+ years at least before anyone can hope to get the full training and other requirements under their belt (it took a 25+ year retired municipal inspector 2 years)......and it's going to get more stringent: on the table now is a 1 year probationary period for new members. Paying your $$$$ does not assure anything here!!!!!
http://www.cahpi-atl.com/visitors/inspector.php

Sounds like the same growth level in Ontario with RHI. Slow to create new RHI due to over zealous bureaucratic red tape designed by a few zealots who run the BOE/AR. Keep the membership down so those on the lower Totem pole pay to run the association for the luxury of a few at the top. In OAHI the money filters to the top.

[lolsen]

Maybe I should have said that the 3 complaints that I am talking about were complaints that were heard at a government level.

Ray is right there is probably more that are dealt with before they reach the highest level. This is business and it is good to see that some people realize their mistakes and pay for them up front and end the story. I honestly do not have a problem with this because we are human and make mistakes. The difference is can we admit it and deal with it or not.

Again the stat I heard was for Alberta. The numbers may be different for Ontario. Keep in mind that the Alberta Government has located 186 HI business in Alberta. I do not know the number in Ontario. If you know some stats maybe the percentage is the same?????

Lawrence

[rwand1]

The split of membership is as follows: (not sure when numbers where complied maybe 2003)

Ø Ontario: 525 members 51% (Ontario is at 793 total members as of today)
Ø BC: 253 members 24%
Ø Quebec: 123 members 12%
Ø Alberta 70 members 7%
Ø Atlantic: 35 members 3%
Ø Saskatchewan: 20 members 2%
Ø Manitoba: 11 members 1%

[James H. Bushart]

Licensing does not raise a bar. It lowers the bar.

A common argument for licensing says "Well, all it takes now to be a home inspector is a business card".

That's kind of true, but not really true, for it takes convincing people that you are capable ....and then get them to invest actual dollars in you...to be ins business as a home inspector. To do this, you must be able to demonstrate that you have whatever your competitive market requires.

But licensing takes that away. In a licensed state, all inspectors are considered to be equally competent and qualified. Whatever competitive edge you presently market as an advantage to someone hiring you is immediately lost in the eye of a consumer who is led to believe that all who have a license have what is necessary to provide them with a good home inspection. From there, it is "Who can provide this inspection for the lowest fee?".

Today, it is almost impossible for a boy in his twenties to get work as a home inspector in an unlicensed state....but when a license requires that he pass a test, obtain "X" number of hours of training, pay "x" number of dollars to the state....the boy instantly becomes as much of a man as all the others in the state holding the same license.

And as the study that was done by the Ohio Real Estate Commission showed, licensing was a "dumbing down" of inspectors in states that adopted it.

Was it because of the immediate increase in inspectors that some deny even happens, or some other reason, the average number of inspections per inspector is considerably lower for inspectors in licensed states than unlicensed states.

Licensing solves nothing.

[rwand1]

Your points are not compelling in light of a study of 500 inspectors which indicated 2/3 supported it.

[James H. Bushart]

In a very unscientific NACHI poll it was shown that, in states that are liecensed...32% of them (almost a third) were "unhappy with the law". (53 were okay with it, 17 were not).

Of those in unlicensed states, twice as many - 64% -said they prefer no licensing laws in their state.(35 were against a law and 20 were in favor).

As I stated in my first post, a careful study of the transition of the profession in those states adopting licensing laws would probably convince the majority of people who presently favor it to change their minds.

Those having an agenda....that being the sellers (or teachers) of HI education that would use the law to mandate a class full of students...will feel differently. So would the brand new inspector who would see how a license would immediately increase his stature among his competitors.

The remaining home inspectors....those who would see the competitive edge they have built and marketed for themselves...diminish to nothing the day the law was signed, would be sorry.

Some will be happy at first, thinking a "raised bar" would thin out the herd....until they saw the stampede after stampede running out the doors of HI schools, waving their licenses and their $125 specials.

It's just a bad idea....a bad idea with a clearly marked history, for anyone willing to take the time to study it.

Licensing is the wrong thing to do. It solves nothing.

[rwand1]

It solves the fact that self regulation has not worked within Canada. There are just too many horror stories and the various associations have had the opportunity to clean up their acts but have failed to do so. The only recourse is licencing.

As to pricing and competitive edge I don't believe it. If that were the case electricians and plumbers and hair dressers would be in the unemployment lines.

[James H. Bushart]

Unions control prices.

[rwand1]

To my knowledge not all licenced professions belong to unions.


http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/for...p?TOPIC_ID=186

[James H. Bushart]

Union plumbers, electricians and hair dressers have a set minimum fee. Any contractor accepting less than union scale loses his card.

Non-union contractors work for what they can get. Usually half of union scale.

[rwand1]

http://www.raymondwand.ca/homeinspectionreportBC.pdf

PROJECT REPORT:
REVIEW OF ISSUES AND OPTIONS
FOR CERTIFICATION OF HOME INSPECTORS
September 16, 2005