National Certification Future ?????????

[Claude Lawrenson]

Certainly, and again due to confidentiality we do not give out names, un less those people will be willing to permit such. Last year we trained First Nation Building Officers for CMHC, and we also do several 100 inspectors per year through Humber College. In addition we also do onsite inspection training. "We" are currently developing new courses as we speak. In addition we employ other professionals on contract to teach courses such as Plumbing and HVAC.

Regarding our success rate - similar to the colleges. There is about 30% attrition, and possibly another 5-10% that realize after a few years that its not easy as some people claim - to be a home inspector.

"We" believe in providing our students with facts - not make believe. We explain very clearly the issues of risk, risk management and the difficulties. Certanly there are companies out there making people believe that any one can be a home inspector and you can make lots of money. But that is not the reality.

[rwand1]

Hi Claude, thanks for the linkes... I liked ...
http://www.free-homeimprovement.com/...ity-18804.html

Until such time as licensing is a reality, a solid background, a good reputation - and perhaps membership in a professional association - will remain as the home inspector’s primary credentials.

Couldn't have said it better myself. As a matter of fact I have said licencing is the salvation, repeatedly.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Certainly, and again due to confidentiality we do not give out names, un less those people will be willing to permit such. Last year we trained First Nation Building Officers for CMHC, and we also do several 100 inspectors per year through Humber College. In addition we also do onsite inspection training. "We" are currently developing new courses as we speak. In addition we employ other professionals on contract to teach courses such as Plumbing and HVAC.

Regarding our success rate - similar to the colleges. There is about 30% attrition, and possibly another 5-10% that realize after a few years that its not easy as some people claim - to be a home inspector.

"We" believe in providing our students with facts - not make believe. We explain very clearly the issues of risk, risk management and the difficulties. Certanly there are companies out there making people believe that any one can be a home inspector and you can make lots of money. But that is not the reality.

Thanks Claude this confirms what I have said all along NOW if OAHI would also tell the truth there would be a lot less disappointed and broke Wish I was an inspector. Lets see using less then your figures 100 per year at 70% = 70 and another 10% ~ less = 60 per year. at 5 years = 300. And OAHI is doing about the same another 300 = 600. and another 300 from your company= 900 OAHI has not increased there membership so I can see why NACHI is doing so good it is all the trained inspectors from your college, your Company and OAHI . WOW! and some say NACHI members are not trained properly . No way the members we are getting are great and I have to think these are the ones who are smart enough to see how much better NACHI is then OAHI/CAHPI
I thank you now I understand why NACHI is doing so great.
Roy Cooke . Royshomeinspection.com

[rrichards2]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Hi Claude, thanks for the linkes... I liked ...
http://www.free-homeimprovement.com/...ity-18804.html


Couldn't have said it better myself. As a matter of fact I have said licencing is the salvation, repeatedly.

Bring on licencing. It's the only way to stop all this BS.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Claude
I must thank you for making me see things I had not seen before .
You have talked about NACHI and how there members are not well trained .
Sorry but the way I see it is they are far superior Home Inspectors then those of OAHI/CAHPI.

Before our members do any inspections they must pass an exam .
This is more then is required from OAHI/CAHPI
You also talk about the training that the NACHI members go through .
This BB is far superior then any thing in Canada and is open to all .
Any Home Inspector can and do come on for instant assistance and they do get it from many directions,
there is no discrimination and none are held back from getting the knowledge they desire.
You talk about the training that is put on by you and your associates .
Your system is very expensive and is nothing but a cram course with very limited time to complete it .
This does not happen with NACHI we have many members who have been advancing at their own speed while they still work at their existing job and are able to get their training at a sensible speed and very minimal cost..
This the way I see it works exceptionally well and as the saying goes if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I feel as Roy Richards said Quote "Bring on licensing. It's the only way to stop all this BS." this is the only solution to our dilemma.
OAHI/CAHPI ( I am completely convinced ) is absolutely useless to the Canadian Home Inspection industry.
All the Directors are only in for their own betterment and not out to improve the industry not one little bit.
Your College cost is below, plus much more for books.

NACHI for sure does much for all Home Inspectors .
Membership is also not closed at 200±

Roy Cooke sr....... Royshomeinspection.com

Claude being on the NACHI Education Committee must also see what I am talking about
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://humber.ca/faq/31531.htm

Humber Home<IMG height=10 alt="->" src="http://postgraduate.humber.ca/images/breadarrow2.gif" width=15 align=bottom>Full-Time Postgraduate Calendar<IMG height=10 alt="->" src="http://postgraduate.humber.ca/images/breadarrow2.gif" width=15 align=bottom>Diploma and Certificate Programs <IMG height=10 alt="->" src="http://postgraduate.humber.ca/images/breadarrow2.gif" width=15 align=bottom>Applied TechnologyHome Inspection

Graduate Certificate
School of Applied Technology

Application Program Code 31531
Online Program
Two semesters, beginning in September and January
What are the course fees and does this include the cost of books?
The total fees for the two semester Post Graduate Program is $3,943.14.
This does not include the cost of books. [<A class=link href="http://www.humber.ca/faq/31531.htm#top31531">top]
What are the costs for the books?


The cost of the books for the courses can be found at <A href="http://www.bkstr.com/">www.bkstr.com .
Click on go>> under books
Click on go>> under textbooks Select Term – click on arrow

This two-semester online program* focuses on developing the skills and knowledge required to work as a home inspector. Home inspection is a rapidly growing profession involving the assessment of the condition of residential and light commercial buildings. It is a unique discipline, being distinct from construction, engineering, architectural or municipal building inspection, requiring its own set of professional guidelines and qualifications. Home inspectors will identify conditions, and prepare reports on the physical conditions of the structure, roof, exterior, plumbing, heating, cooling, insulation and interiors. Home inspectors inspect various systems to determine the system deficiencies

[Claude Lawrenson]

Roy I would say we are talking two different things - what you just stated and what was offered as a matter of fact. Courses offered through the colleges are not home inspection diploma mills such as some of the 40 hour wonders that exist out there.

If you understand the college system at least here in Ontario you will learn that 2 full semesters equates to 300 to 600 hours or more of training.

If you take 8 domain based or system based courses at 80 hours that works out to 640 hours. Some colleges offer less detail, and may be listed as 40 hours or 320 hours. So I fail to see the validity of the cram course! Perhaps you meant the 40 hour course must be phenomenal if they can truly cram all that studying into a week!

Now add in the onsite training and mentorship, and test inspections.

Now equate that to the cost you stated earlier and perhaps one may see a very different picture. What is the cost per hour?

On top of that its still considered formal education and at least recognized by the education ministry as college credits. Now we are getting closer to the essence of "accreditation" by a recognized body. So where one decides to go afterwards is strictly ones choice. Perhaps we are now getting closer to realizing why there are huge differences in our opinion of the value of formal education versus pass a test and hope you make it.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Claude as per usual you take from what is said your way. This all started with YOU and others selling the Wish to be Home inspectors a product ,that they will be able to make a good living at home inspection and you know from past experience that it is a huge cost of money and time.
You can see from OAHI there is no increase in there members(RHIs) and no way most will ever make a living at this industry.
To me this is not fair to these people.
You also manage to keep complaing about the NACHI education.
If you feel it is not doing a good job why do you remain on the NACHI education committee.
You never seem to say any thing about the lack of education for OAHI when they have student doing inspections who have had no exam no courses and little or no training.
You look like you have tunnel vision CAHPI is great NACHI has many faults.
Why is CAHPI not growing and NACHI is growing.
Why does NACHI do so much for its members and CAHPI so little.
Why is the CAHPI list closed and the NACHI open.
Why is so much information given on the NACHI BB and so little on the CAHPI BB.

You talk about the inspections you are doing , Are you doing these as a retired member of OAHI or as a active member of NACHI.
You manage to praise CAHPI and how great it is ,Can you tell me why you have made 182 post's since January 2006 on this BB and none on the CAHPI BB.
Can you tell me why if CAHPI is so great why NACHI get more CAHPI members looking at the NACHI BB then have made post's on the CAHPI BB since it started .
Can you tell me why you seldom answer any direct questions put to you.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,... More find this out ever day!

[rwand1]

Hey if Nachi members have been accepted into the National Cert. program, and Nachi has refused to provide its SOP/COE, and other pertinent info required to become part of the National Initiative, then how are those Nachi members who have applied or accepted going to be reviewed? Either Nachi refusing to supply the requested info is a problem or it isn't. Seems it isn't a problem because supposedly a good number of Nachi inspectors have been accepted for National Cert. So Nachi being part of the problem seems to be an exaggeration. So which is it?

[Michael Masney]

I have a question, and maybe Claude may be able to answer.
How many RHI's have any "formal education" in Home Inspection, and to what degree? I am new to the industry and have taken a lot of training in the last 2 years, however it is becoming more evident that no matter how well educated one is, there is always one more obstacle to overcome to be a full member of OAHI. I have taken the time and energy to make sure I am more than capable of operating a Home Inspection business in a professional and honest manner. I would not open my doors until/unless this were the case.
I am a member of NACHI and currently a "student member" of OAHI. I hope the day comes soon when there is licensing in Ontario and the associations
are there to do what they are supposed to do, that being to support and educate their members. Having said that I can only see myself opening my doors under the NACHI banner. Like I said, I am new, but from what I have seen and read, there appears to be only one logical choice.

Cheers

[Claude Lawrenson]

The National Certification Council looks at what courses, seminars, work experience and background each individual applicant has. Since it is an objective and unbiased process, a person's association membership is irrelevant to the decisions that need to be made. Some NACHI members will have passed courses that are accredited by the National Accreditation Council, and that will serve them well.

The fact that NACHI has decided not to cooperate does not adversely affect the National Certification Program. The only ones who might be adversely affected will be those NACHI members whose educational credits are through NACHI programs. If those programs have not been submitted to and accredited by the Accreditation Council, they cannot be counted. Those NACHI members could have difficulty becoming National Certificate Holders. Mind you, if a CAHPI member has only taken courses from unaccredited sources, he/she would experience the same challenges.

There are also several people in the Pilot Project who have no association affiliation whatsoever. These people are reviewed the same way. As has been stated from the beginning, an inspector does not need to be a member of CAHPI or any other association to become a National Certificate Holder.

Nobody has yet been 'accepted' for National Certification. Several NACHI people are in the Pilot Project, as are CAHPI members, ASHI, BCIPI members, and some with no affiliation. That does not mean that they will become National Certificate Holders. It is possible that not all of these will become National Certificate Holders, because there will likely be "some" identifiable gaps and shortfalls in some of their credentials.

That's what this process is about. The Test Inspections with Peer Review, the Background Reviews, the course accreditation, etc. are all pieces of the process by which Canadian Home Inspectors will be evaluated so their competence and abilities can be determined against the National Standard.

Simply like most every professional association, certification and accreditation addresses a continuation of a co joint partnership between home inspection associations and other stakeholders and partners that agree "freely" to participate in the process. It has been developed in co-operation with the research studies conducted by CMHC, and with support of other stakeholders. The process has and will meet the demands expected of both consumers and the potential for future regulation and strive for a higher quality of practitioner by maintaining a minimum national standard and/or higher where required - by provincial authorities.

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Certainly, and again due to confidentiality we do not give out names, un less those people will be willing to permit such. Last year we trained First Nation Building Officers for CMHC, and we also do several 100 inspectors per year through Humber College. In addition we also do onsite inspection training. "We" are currently developing new courses as we speak. In addition we employ other professionals on contract to teach courses such as Plumbing and HVAC.

Regarding our success rate - similar to the colleges. There is about 30% attrition, and possibly another 5-10% that realize after a few years that its not easy as some people claim - to be a home inspector.

"We" believe in providing our students with facts - not make believe. We explain very clearly the issues of risk, risk management and the difficulties. Certanly there are companies out there making people believe that any one can be a home inspector and you can make lots of money. But that is not the reality.

Well Claude,
You may be providing students with facts, but when the truth is smothered, its not realizing that they are not cut out to be home inspector, its that they come to the realization that they were misled, and left to die, But when they see the light at the end of the tunnel (NACHI) theres still hope.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Michael welcome to the fold. I will not for a moment steer you to or away from joining any association. Others seems to see that differently. That is a personal decision, and should not be decided by anyone but you. I keep my options open and belong to a number of associations and other related organizations.

One area that I have keenly focused on beyond education is testing inspectors to see if practitioners really can do what are they are required to do. In conducting test inspections "we" have found a number of glaring deficiencies both in education and in field practices.

Its amazing even what one can learn about why inspectors miss the critical issues that they are obligated to report. The SOP seems to spell it out, reasonably succinctly regardless of association. In one instance the inspector completely made no mention of a complete entire system in the home. Not to mention that he did however elaborate with a ton of photos of everything else. Seems some get to distracted by one thing or another. But bottom line - did the inspector do what they were obligated to do. If not - we have problems.

Another side of the bigger picture is not just identifying defects, but imparting valuable knowledge of the imlication of those conditions on the client. One only read some great articles by Dr. Swift to realize there is much more we can do to avoid litigation, but unfortunately some keep taking shortcuts and making the same mistakes over and over again.

The other side of the issue is the fear of accountability - not just financial related but those that are practitioner related - living up to the required daily standard. Thats where the TIPR comes into play. Yes even that other US association trains and test their inspectors in a similar manner. Again amazingly there are lots of shortfalls that can readily be recognized to raising the bar to insure better quality and performance in home inspections. Perhaps thats another reason why E&O insurance has become a rare and/or expensive commodity. Sad to say - but some inspectors need to be sued - to provide them with yet another reality check. Certainly I do not wish that on anyone, but the reality is lowered standards does not improve quality, consumer protection or professionalism of the home inspection sector.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Originally Posted by twheeler

Well Claude,
You may be providing students with facts, but when the truth is smothered, its not realizing that they are not cut out to be home inspector, its that they come to the realization that they were misled, and left to die, But when they see the light at the end of the tunnel (NACHI) theres still hope.

Is that specifically aimed as my philosophy - certainly not. Sorry but there are far too many others out there that can take that rap!

I became involved with delivering education through the college system. Why because there is a required level of acceptance and accountability. That's a lot more than some other venues offer.

rcooke
4/1/06, 10:03 AM
It's already here. A certain college in Ontario already has a "post graduate program" level program for Home Inspections. Its been approved and operating for over almost a year now.

Many do not know just how dedicated Claude is and has been to the inspection industry.
I believe it was in the late Nineties he had a program .( I think he did this on his own ) (perhaps Claude can add more information) he sent out Minnie exams and questions to all who signed up .
This was I am sure a huge help to many, I know I sure enjoyed them .
Unfortunately I lacked the time to be able to do as much as I would have liked with it back then.
He has always been at the front with many great ideas and still shows how he wants to help so many.
Thanks Claude for being there then and now.
I do not always agree with him but he sure makes me think and I do get a lot of thoughts and information from his posts.
We have been fortunate to have many great ones along the way some who have just given up and others who have moved onto other industries.
Many are still posting and you can see their posts .
By reading these and others posting it gets you and others thinking agree or disagree it definitely has some bearing on our future.
I had a friend once who always took the other side just to help people form different thoughts .
It works and some times gets people upset.
I do want you all to know how much help you have been to me and many others.
Thanks to all . Roy Cooke sr.

Takebacks?

Furthermore Claude,
I have interviewed several home inspectors that are RHI's and are strugelling to survive, their knowledge of the house is immaculate, they are very nice people, they are also very well dressed, but what seems to be the problem?
Its that they are left alone, when trouble hits, NACHI, however, picks up those fallen soldiers, nurses them back to health, and then teaches them that its not "what you know", its how you present and market yourself.
Kind of like being in the battle field, when you have the whole army behind you, it gives you a sense of confidence, but when your alone, you will certainly soon be put to death, or "captured".

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Is that specifically aimed as my philosophy - certainly not. Sorry but there are far too many others out there that can take that rap!

I became involved with delivering education through the college system. Why because there is a required level of acceptance and accountability. That's a lot more than some other venues offer.



Takebacks?

Not in the least I meant what I said and try to be carefull . I always do my best to tell the truth always .
I do answer most questions and try not to leave out information .
sorry to say that I also feel you have tunnel vision.
You chastise me for repeating what Bill said but I have never seen you chastise Bill for his slanderous statements on Both BB.
It how you say things and leave out much information I disagree with.
You do know facts are said about OAHI and you choose to ignore these statements.
Example the gentleman who just made the post, His is just one of many who
have diffulties and many give up (this is I feel is what OAHI wants )
You in my openion have a slanted vision about how great OAHI/CAHPI is and how poor NACHI is .
You state NACHI was offered the chance to come on Board the National Certification and chose not too.
I agree why should NACHI give any credence to a group of self appointed people who have in the past made many false statements and hopes .
They have never offered an apology or explanation from their past errors .
The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,... More find this out ever day!