National Certification Program - Preliminary discussion to Bill Mullen presentation.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Bill said:
The certification is designed to be 100 % voluntary. Nobody is forced to take it. However, if the public and realtors realize that their chances of getting a competent inspector improve by hiring a National Certifcate Holder, I think it would make sense to apply for certification. If governments decide to license us and make it mandatory, that's beyond my sphere of influence.

I don't think the above opinion would apply to someone in Oahi who is an RHI. I feel that Oahi has a very good system. The National Cert. for an OAHI member is really irrelevent, it can't supercede RHI in Ontario. I think this is a misconception by many in OAHI.
Since CAHPI Ontario has submitted their documentation for an equivalency evaluation, if the RHI is equal to or higher in requirements to the NCP, it will be simple for RHI members to get certified. However, the National Certificate Holder status is not meant to replace or supercede any other certification.

I guess we'll have to disagree on that. The TIPR program is proving that there are too many people doing inspections who shouldn't be doing them and that reflects on all of us and does a disservice to the public.

But that is what OAHI is suppose to be doing with its members ensuring they are competent. Obviously its not. Many in OAHI who are reviewed via TIPR and fail because they are lousy or shouldn't be inspecting can go right back to doing what they are doing in Oahi because they are members of OAHI. Certification does not weed out bad inspectors who already belong to an association. Whats wrong with this picture folks? Think about it.
Every association should be ensuring its members are competent. The NCP has a chosen to determine this in a different way. I don't believe I said any OAHI inspectors had failed.
To follow your reasoning, any member of any association, bit just OAHI, could fail and continue inspecting. For that matter, so could people without any association.

Bill Mullen

[Claude Lawrenson]

Ray - would it be fair and correct to say that regardless of naming associations - those that fail the TIPR are still inspecting. The TIPR's are not intended to disqualify inspectors from their livelihood - however - perhaps it should give that individual food for thought about their potential vulnerability.

[rwand1]

Bill said
I guess we'll have to disagree on that. The TIPR program is proving that there are too many people doing inspections who shouldn't be doing them and that reflects on all of us and does a disservice to the public.

How can you come to that conclusion based on one hundred participants with less than that number actually certified?

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by mgratton

What is the annual fee to maintain *NCH* status once achieved?

It has been set at $ 50 per year for CAHPI association members and $ 100. per year for non-CAHPI members. Since there won't be any renewals until this time next year, those figures could change.

The difference will cover extra costs involved in administration. The educational credits for members will be easily done through the provincial associations. Non-members won't be nearly as easy to do.

Bill Mullen

[Nick Gromicko]

As founder of the world's largest inspection trade association I can assure you all that nearly all poorly performed inspections are performed by competent inspectors.

Verifying that an inspector CAN do something right does not assure anyone that he/she WILL do something right. MADD says that nearly all drunk drivers passed their driver's exam.

[rwand1]

Bill

I wasn't trying to imply that OAHI members had failed. Even if they didn't the possibility exists.

Also,
Since CAHPI Ontario has submitted their documentation for an equivalency evaluation, if the RHI is equal to or higher in requirements to the NCP, it will be simple for RHI members to get certified. However, the National Certificate Holder status is not meant to replace or supercede any other certification.

Thats funny, if its not meant to replace or supercede I fail to see why anyone would want it. Particularly a OAHI Member or other seasoned inspector say in Ashi, or Nachi fwiw.

[Nick Gromicko]

Furthermore, our own SOP exam shows that there is a direct inverse correlation between the number of years an inspector is in business and how well he/she understands the SOP and follows it.

New inspectors know only how to do things the way they were taught. Veterans have their own thinking.

[rwand1]

How do the SOP show that there is a direct inverse correlation between the number of years an inspector is in business and how well he/she understands the SOP and follows it?

[Nick Gromicko]

Schools that use our SOP exam (and there are many) report the same thing. The inspectors who are actively working don't follow the SOP as well as a newbie does.

Same is true with REALTORs. Veteran REALTORs get in all the trouble with not having all the consumer disclosures signed because they think it is a pain. New agents follow procedures much better because they don't have enough experience to think they can cut corners.

There is a reason a newer home inspector spends 4.5 hours on a job... they're doing a more thorough, albeit less experienced, inspection.

Insecurity about one's own abilities is a good thing sometimes.

[Nick Gromicko]

I'll tell you something else too. The average number of continuing education hours that an inspector takes decreases when you mandate continuing education through licensing.

You see, once licensing is adopted, everyone just takes the minimum ce hours and only those one's approved. Advanced courses or courses outside the SOP (unapproved) are only popular up until approved courses become mandated.

NACHI recently had the President of the SC Board of REALTORs speak at a NACHI chapter meeting I attended and he told us all that the number of ce hours taken by REALTORs on average dropped to 1/2 after the Board adopted mandatory and approved continuing ed.

[rwand1]

Thanks for the explanation Nick. I just realized now that I did not include the word Exam when I read your statement about about SOP Exams .,

[Darrell B. Hadler]

Bill, I am already a NACHI certified home inspector...soon to be CMI in a few days if all goes well, which took about 4-5 years to aquire. Thats all I need.

Thank-you for your comments, sometimes we don't agree on things and thats OK too. I guess we'll find out where the chips fall fairly soon.

[rwand1]

Darrell

The whole CAHPI/National is dependent on numbers. If there are inadequate numbers or interest for this program it will not survive. That is why Nick invited Bill to come here to promote the program because it needs everyone on board, not 1/5 of the estimated 5000 inspectors in Canada.

I believe thats why the government provided financing for the first 100 applicants to see how things would play out, interest, so forth and so on.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by gromicko

As founder of the world's largest inspection trade association I can assure you all that nearly all poorly performed inspections are performed by competent inspectors.

Verifying that an inspector CAN do something right does not assure anyone that he/she WILL do something right. MADD says that nearly all drunk drivers passed their driver's exam.

If I may add, education nor peer review will guarantee *Ethics*...

[Darrell B. Hadler]

Raymond, while I agree in theory about the whole concept and the betterment of the industry as a whole...it kinda makes you feel fuzzy all over, doesn't it? Before you know it, we'll all be drinking beer and eating RAINBOW STEW. I do not believe this concept will become a reality. 1. Because the gov't stuck its schnauze in business where they do not belong. 2. Because it appears some of the high influence associations are throwing their weight behind one association and that is a recipe for disaster

Most of these things start with good intentions and sound so good on paper, but the way the world works and how things usually end up are two completely different aspects. It's kinda ironic really...everyone is wanting us to be more accountable when these wanna be "God outfits" come in and take over and don't wanna have to be accountable for nothing

By the way, if anyone can tell me how to attach a 1 page pdf so you can all view it, let me know. I have a copy of a CAHPI newsletter to Realtors that was pinned up in one of the Real estate offices if anyone is interested. I tried to upload it but it was over 500 bytes or something like that, and all it will handle is two hundred and some. It might be of some interest to some.
Sorry, I'm not a computer whiz. Don't know how to begin.
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