National Certification Program - Preliminary discussion to Bill Mullen presentation.

[George A. H. Luck]

"so why should any person feel obligated to cooperate"

Because you ( CAPHI) are trying to sell the programme to us. We don't need you ( CAPHI). You need us. Bill came here under the pretense of having a discussion and forgot that the word 'discussion' implies a two way flow of information.

Please forgive both me and the other inspectors here for being a little edgy about a programme that was put together with tax payers money and at the exclusion of 90% of the home inspectors now in the business. In order for the CAPHI national to succeed the majority of home inspectors will have to support it.

They don't.

You ( CAPHI) will have to sell it to us. Having a representative throw tantrums every time an inspector asks a difficult question is not the way to accomplish this.

[Claude Lawrenson]

George since you want the facts - lets deal with another one. Once again you are entitled to believe it or not.

Fact: we all pay taxes and it spent on good things and bad things everyday. That money you claimed was yours was earmarked for CMHC programs. CMHC specifically funds studies and projects that are approved yearly. One of a number of projects funded included the National Initiative. It also paid consultants and other experts for their expertise this include the Construction Sector Council. So CAHPI was not the only beneficiary.

Further to that I will ask politely, to reiterate another point - how many personal dollars from an Ontario association that helped fund the National Initiative have you put into this project. Futhermore how many hours have you invested? Certainly it is none of my business - nor is it the business of NACHI to tell CAHPI, OAHI or anyone else as a matter of fact or to tell me how to respond, or that I am obligated to respond.

CAHPI does not need to sell the National Initiative, it already has proven that it can suceed with or without NACHI members in Canada. Certainly some NACHI members have already suceeded that proves there is a grassroots level of interest by NACHI and many others. Simply the invites has asked interested parties that they are welcome to apply. If not so be it. Its no different than me trying to tell you or Nick on how to run NACHI. N'est pas! Because it is none of my business - regardless of my personal opinion.

But more to the point - communication is obviously challenged, and strained. Communication is not just a one way, one opinion medium of expression. Communication breaks down for many reasons, and there are living examples why this happens right here in this discussion.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

George since you want the facts - lets deal with another one. Once again you are entitled to believe it or not.

Fact: we all pay taxes and it spent on good things and bad things everyday. That money you claimed was yours was earmarked for CMHC programs. CMHC specifically funds studies and projects that are approved yearly. One of a number of projects funded included the National Initiative. It also paid consultants and other experts for their expertise this include the Construction Sector Council. So CAHPI was not the only beneficiary.

Further to that I will ask politely, to reiterate another point - how many personal dollars from an Ontario association that helped fund the National Initiative have you put into this project. Futhermore how many hours have you invested? Certainly it is none of my business - nor is it the business of NACHI to tell CAHPI, OAHI or anyone else as a matter of fact or to tell me how to respond, or that I am obligated to respond.

CAHPI does not need to sell the National Initiative, it already has proven that it can suceed with or without NACHI members in Canada. Certainly some NACHI members have already suceeded that proves there is a grassroots level of interest by NACHI and many others. Simply the invites has asked interested parties that they are welcome to apply. If not so be it. Its no different than me trying to tell you or Nick on how to run NACHI. N'est pas! Because it is none of my business - regardless of my personal opinion.

But more to the point - communication is obviously challenged, and strained. Communication is not just a one way, one opinion medium of expression. Communication breaks down for many reasons, and there are living examples why this happens right here in this discussion.

Sorry to make this awakward
But I did pay as you say money into CAHPI from 1999 till 2004 and I paid full dues .
Now Please correct me if I am wrong but I do believe during that time frame, you where a retired member not doing inspections and paying the reduced rate as a retired member .
I do believe that from retired members of OAHI zero no funds whent to Cahpi
So now I ask the same question as you asked

" Further to that I will ask politely, to reiterate another point - how many personal dollars from an Ontario association that helped fund the National Initiative have you put into this project "

Cookie

[George A. H. Luck]

Thank you, Claude, for your speedy reply. Perhaps we can now have a 'discusssion' without a tantrum? Please see my comments below -


Fact: we all pay taxes and it spent on good things and bad things everyday. That money you claimed was yours was earmarked for CMHC programs. CMHC specifically funds studies and projects that are approved yearly. One of a number of projects funded included the National Initiative. It also paid consultants and other experts for their expertise this include the Construction Sector Council. So CAHPI was not the only beneficiary.

The fact that my and all our tax dollars are funneled into the general tax stream does not mean that we give up ownership. The fact remains that my tax dollars were in some quantity invested into this programme. Or are you suggesting that it is not tax payers money once it has been extorted by the government and that the government invested THEIR money?

Further to that I will ask politely, to reiterate another point - how many personal dollars from an Ontario association that helped fund the National Initiative have you put into this project. Futhermore how many hours have you invested? Certainly it is none of my business - nor is it the business of NACHI to tell CAHPI, OAHI or anyone else as a matter of fact or to tell me how to respond, or that I am obligated to respond.

Unfortunately neither I nor 'thousands' of other Home Inspectors in Canada were given the opportunity to contribute to the development of the programme. And there-in lies the rub. How can you say "You inspectors have been excluded because you contributed nothing"( the above tax dollar issue aside) when the opportunity to contribute has been denied? The lack of communication from CAPHI, the seeming unwillingness to allow open discussion with the majority of inspectors, the hidden agendas, and the various defamatory statements made by representatives of CAPHI about this organization and it 's members serve to illustrate this. ( now before you too go off half cocked about "the past" I was hoping that Bill would be man enough to apologize for his transgressions. Such an appology, heart felt of not, would have gone a long way to clearing the air. Sadly he was not.) Very confusing.

CAHPI does not need to sell the National Initiative, it already has proven that it can succeed with or without NACHI members in Canada.

Where is that proven beyond your posting it? How can it succeed without the majority of Home Inspectors supporting it?

Certainly some NACHI members have already succeeded that proves there is a grassroots level of interest by NACHI and many others.

Circular logic. The participation of a few inspectors out of 5000 proves nothing of the sort. Until the programme is launched ( I understand that it was to be launched at least a year ago) and the fee structure is is modified to be fair to all, then nothing has been proven. Nothing other than there are a few inspectors who wanted to take advantage of the garage sale pricing of course

Simply the invites has asked interested parties that they are welcome to apply. If not so be it. Its no different than me trying to tell you or Nick on how to run NACHI. N'est pas! Because it is none of my business - regardless of my personal opinion.

But more to the point - communication is obviously challenged, and strained. Communication is not just a one way, one opinion medium of expression. Communication breaks down for many reasons, and there are living examples why this happens right here in this discussion.

Exactly my point. "Communication is not just a one way, one opinion medium of expression." Tantrums, while sometimes useful to children are not acceptable here in the forum of adults.

Thank you for your reply once again.
12/22/06 9:41 AM





</IMG>

[Claude Lawrenson]

Roy - not awkward at all, in fact glad you brought up those considering going from retired status back to full time RHI. But more specifically, I was a RHI from day one since Bill PR158. So that means that a portion of my annual dues for virtually a decade at least went into the CAHI/CAHPI National funding. In fact I have been in the home inspection business since 1984 and part-time prior to that.

Oh, and did I mention that I served on the CHIBO Committee since its creation since 1999 as the Education Rep. I would indicate this represents not just countless hours, but travel and expenses. This "volunteer" time caused a loss to my business, and a loss of market share for the benefit of my belief in a national professionalization of our industry. So I can honestly say it came at a dear cost, hence the change in focus to Retired status. The good news is, hardly a day goes by without former clients wanting me to get back into the business.

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

What is perfectly clear here - is when either Bill or myself, or any other person has TRIED to provide info we are banded together in a negative light. Sorry Roy but you mentioned $**** - Don't you think that your ***** stinks just like everyone else too!

If you are not wanting to listen to the information provided - that really is unfortunate. I thought I was trying to respond to Douglas, but it seems that I was fooled by a band of school yard bullies. It seems that some NACHI members here are more interested in proving their unprofessional elitist attitude, so why should any person feel obligated to cooperate and reciprocate? Therein lies the cruz of the communication problem.

Some people choose to listen with their mouth rather than an open mind and their ears.

It is obvious that you can not defend your position in a reasonable discussion.
If you could you would not be resorting to personal attacks on anyone that calls you on it.
That is totally unprofessional.
For someone that professes to uplift the status of the Home Inspection Industry you should try to be a little more professional.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Roy - not awkward at all, in fact glad you brought up those considering going from retired status back to full time RHI. But more specifically, I was a RHI from day one since Bill PR158. So that means that a portion of my annual dues for virtually a decade at least went into the CAHI/CAHPI National funding. In fact I have been in the home inspection business since 1984 and part-time prior to that.

Oh, and did I mention that I served on the CHIBO Committee since its creation since 1999 as the Education Rep. I would indicate this represents not just countless hours, but travel and expenses. This "volunteer" time caused a loss to my business, and a loss of market share for the benefit of my belief in a national professionalization of our industry. So I can honestly say it came at a dear cost, hence the change in focus to Retired status. The good news is, hardly a day goes by without former clients wanting me to get back into the business.

Gee I was also on various committeesfrom Day one in every Home inspectors association I Have belonged too .
Yes it is time consuming and there is defiantly a loss of home inspections . This is the price those who chose to help pay .
I do not see where this enters the final total but if that is the case I hope you take that into consideration to all those who choose to apply for your National Certification .
They too should have tis added to their help and deducted from their out lay.
Glad to hear you are going back into the inspection field and wish you luck in your new endeavor.
I see still not answering questions that is most unfortunate as I am sure you can see many Canadian Home Inspectors have no idea who is running this show and where it is going .

From the information I have gathered it looks like it is going no where and just might be another

Remember Whistlerhttp://www.nachi.org/forum/f48/lets-not-forget-whistler-4935/

Cookie

[Claude Lawrenson]

Vern - I respect your opinion but the truth will bare out that you are pointing the finger at not just me with a small post about ***** but a whole slew of other offenders. I ask that you review some of those other defaming and extremely unprofessional posts. How unprofessional are they, or do they have special treatment as good upstanding NACHI members?

BTW: How long does it take to do a 20 minute presentation? Seems there are other views on the Aberta experience.

[wjung]

Claude,
Bill made the same comment, regarding dues he has payed into the national since the beginning. A while ago and I asked him what fees I am going to be charged since I also have paid, monatarily and in volunteer time since the beginning of this projecct. I also have had time away from my buisiness when I was a memeber of PACHI & OAHI and in fact ended up many times paying for crap out of my own pocket, which I was never reembursed for. He stated he would get back to me with an answer. However, as usual to this date all I have heard is silence, which has become deafening. So please don't start with this BS on how much volunteer time you have invested. That was totally your choice just as it was mine at the time. How about Bill answering my questions of what individuals with prior history of financial contributions going to be charged for the TIPS?
Best regards
Wolf

[Vern Mitchinson]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Vern - I respect your opinion but the truth will bare out that you are pointing the finger at not just me with a small post about ***** but a whole slew of other offenders. I ask that you review some of those other defaming and extremely unprofessional posts. How unprofessional are they, or do they have special treatment as good upstanding NACHI members?

BTW: How long does it take to do a 20 minute presentation? Seems there are other views on the Aberta experience.

I agree that personal attacks are out of line no matter who does it.
I have read all of the posts on the CANADIAN Inspectors board and it is always you, Bill or other CAPHI members that launch a personnel attack when you are challenged. This provokes a reply in kind. If do not want to be attacked then don't attack any oneelse and if they attack you do not reply in kind.
Bye the bye your apology is accepted for your unprovoked attacks on me.

Would you care to explain what you are talking about "....20 minute. presentation...... "?

[Claude Lawrenson]

Seasons greetings

I wanted to send some sort of holiday greeting to my friends and colleagues, but it is so difficult in today's world to know exactly what to say without offending someone. So I met with my solicitors yesterday, and on their advice I wish to make the following statement:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced with the most enjoyable traditions of religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted Gregorian calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make our country great and without regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishes.

By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message.

[rwand1]

Memorable quotes by Bill Mullen..... Not sure who has the credibility problem but you can judge for yourself.

Seems facts and truth have always taken a backseat with certain individuals.

R. Wand said:
"It may also be a good idea if you stopped stating you are the voice of the Canadian Home Inspectors, it seems you are not a spokesperson for anything other than your ability to spread falsities."

Bill replied....

Mr. Wand. In your zeal to replace a valid Canadian association with your adopted American club you have lost the ability to read. I have never once claimed to the the Voice of Canadian Home Inspectors. Clearly, the tagline says:

"CAHPI - The Voice of Canadian Home Inspectors

That looks pretty easy to understand to me. However, you as usual have managed to twist and turn it to suit your pitiful attempts to hurt the Canadian inspectors.

Your campaign of misinformation and outright lies is hurting every valid Canadian inspector.

On the other hand, every word I have said about this National Initiative has been truthful and honest, and said in the best interests of our Canadian brethren. You and your American buddies can carry on your campaign of hatred and lies.

I will leave it to Canadian Home Inspectors to judge who has been more helpful.

Bill Mullen RHI (Not just pretending like Mr. Wand)

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Merry Christmas to all and season greeting too.
Hope next year is as good to you as this one has been.

Char and Roy Cooke

[Darrell B. Hadler]

Bill/Claude; Here-in lies the problem....We have a certification board that was in bed with one association that made up a bunch of rules and their elitist opinions, coming to our association/ the every-day, "minding his own business" home inspector guy, and start telling us how they are going to run the Canadian home inspectors general population. Basically everthing has already been decided by the "bedroom gang" without consulting most of the home inspectors involved. If you can't see the problem with this situation, then you are not near as intelligent as you think you are. If you think for one minute that the gov't of our great country is so naive to legislate this SET-UP as it stands with one association holding most of the power, then I feel for you man. REALITY is going to step in real soon brother, that fact I am convinced with.

As far as us bullying you guys....I say, its the other way around. Whens the last time you had a GUEST come over and the first that comes out of his mouth, are the "RULES OF ENGAGEMENT" That was a great way of starting things out. That put me in a real receptive state right of the bat. Maybe you fellows should understand that there is two ways of attaining the goal of getting people to do what you want them to do, whether they are your friends, staff at your businesses or just people on the street. One way is barking out commands as the BIG GUY, because you can, your the boss. The second way is to DISCUSS things with your staff and really listening to them before making the final ruling, then ASKING them if they would do a certain task for you. Please, adds a nice touch at the end of a request as well. The latter, is by far my preference in 35 years of operating business. Cramming things down someones throat ( which is how this whole scenario has come across) with a WE ARE GOD, like attitude, the rules have all been made up by us, so just eat it and do it because we say its a good package (after all,we have been inspecting for XX years), and WE, (meaning CAHPI and the gov't and/or council) will be running this show from here on in.....just doesn't cut it with me.

I, for one have not been contacted in any way, shape or form, to either have an opinion about, or a vote on any matters that are supposedly going to effect my livelyhood. And I tend to get a little excited when other mess with that. I had no say/vote on who was to be on this council etc. and now that the package is almost complete and all the basic structure is in place, your inviting a couple of other associations to be on it? That's a joke.....it's more likely that you boys under estimated our procedures here in Canada and found out that us regular folk aren't going to stand for this kind of DICTATORSHIP. Things are heating up and you likely figured we'll appease the peasants by letting a few in to make it sound nice and cushy.

BIGGEST MISTAKE was putting too many requirements and attempting to make the perfect plan on paper to define a good standard inspector. It would be a far greater benefit to have a council that had the power to get rid of the "stacks" as one of you puts it (which was also one of the many un-answered questions posted) of poor/sub-standard inspectors. The market place will determine who is average, better, and best inspectors. It allways has and always will.....with a whole lot less MONEY and RULES as you boys think is necessary. I for one believe that poor inspecting is a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE and the marketplace usually will take care of this aspect as well...it's called getting your ***** sued right out of business, and at least then you actually get your day in court instead of some insurance co. settling out of court to save their butts, whether you are guilty or not. That is just plain WRONG.

That is one reason, I for one will not carry E&O insurance, ...better off to do a very thorough inspection and not have to worry about litigation. But then again most in that category only do a couple/three inspections a day, and are thorough...Leave them be. It's the low-ballers and guys in it just to make a fast buck are the ones we have to worry about....they could care less about the consumer....those are the ones we want to be able to "GET RID OF". STOP GOING AFTER NOT-GUILTY GUYS THAT ARE DOING THEIR JOB PROPERLY BY IMPLEMENTING A BUNCH OF RULES AND COSTLY EXPENSES. it's all back-wards.

the more laws/regulations=disaster for our industry & for consumers. if you don't believe me or NICK...check out the U.S. They have fifty some states we can observe and learn from....it's already been tried....What works and what doesn't. Proven by history already. We have 50 different options, with outcomes, to choose from

KISS method still the best.

And I'm just stating my OPINION...if thats bullying... so be it. We'll see how the chips fall shortly....I'll take 20 to 1 odds on my theory though IMHO

It's time for all home inspectors to contact their MLA and let them know how we feel. Their is supposed to be 5,000 or so of us, so if you agree along these lines, write or contact your MLA now. You have two choices at this point. 1./ Do nothing and be satisfied with the force fed National/CAHPI rainbow stew full meal deal. OR 2./ Get off you butts and make a statement to your local MLA now, before its too late. Better yet, maybe Vern could post and address/phone # and we would talk to the real gov't council that is overseeing this licensing/ certification program. The one that is looking for input so they can make an intelligent decision on. (thats the one that has not made everything up already and trying to force feed us that Rainbow-Stew.) That's the way I see it anyway.
</IMG></IMG></IMG></IMG></IMG>

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Very well said Thanks . Roy Cooke sr.

Cookie....... Happy Holidays to all........Have a cookie for me ...