Need to know????

[Michael Larson]

Jason, I wasn't necessarily applying my comment about those who don't think for themselves to you.
As far as "getting over myself" I'm very comfortalbe with who I am and what I believe. I apologize if this comes across as arrogance to you.

Since you don't seem interested putting any of your beliefs about the validity of "global warming" claims and its potetial effects on the table for discussion maybe somone else will jump in here.

Jason, I wish you well in any case.

[George A. H. Luck]

The problem here Jason is that you have a "belief" and "beliefs" do not always require clear logical thought. All I want is a clear linkage made between the tail pipe of my car and global warming. So far all we have is the equivalent of;
"Here are the facts supporting global warming, there fore it must be the influence of man." That statement is made with complete disregard of the historical and geological record.

In an oblique way your ridiculous statement about W.M.D's is quite germane. Iraq had them during and after the first gulf war. It is a documented fact. They subsequently disappeared without trace. The press, in it's head long rush to unseat George Bush has conveniently avoided making that connection for the public. Instead, in order to support their own political agenda, they have done their best to convince the public that these weapons did not exist at all. And as you attest that 'brain washing' has been quite successful.

The same warping of reality and selective reporting may be taking place now with the global warming issue. Funny how scientists who do not support the whole "man is responsible' crusade are never given serious treatment in the press and are routinely ridiculed isn't it?

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by gluck

All I want is a clear linkage made between the tail pipe of my car and global warming.

Tell ya what George, stick your mouth around your tail pipe for a few minutes and breath deep then report back here on how you feel. Now, times that by a few billion and I think we have an argument on how our Earth is dealing with it.

You don't need to have a PHD to have common sense.

If you can't make the linkage between green house gases and our environmet then there is nothing I can say to try to prove to you to change your mind.

Happy sucking.

[Michael Larson]

Jason,

Thanks again for your emotional outburst. You continue to demonstrate your lack of intellectual honesty.

Apparently not everyone agrees with you and rather than present evidence you spout venom.

This just in

Global warming 'just a natural cycle'
By Charles Clover, Environment Editor
Last Updated: 2:27am GMT 19/01/2007


Global warming comes and goes in 1,500 year cycles which may have more to do with cosmic rays than fossil fuel emissions, according to a new book.

If the genuine warming now being seen is caused by human emissions of carbon dioxide, it would have started earlier, according to the book by two veteran American climate sceptics, Fred Singer and Dennis Avery.

Mr Avery, who was in London yesterday, said: “If this were a CO2 driven warming it should have started in 1940 and risen strongly from there. In fact warming started in 1850 and rose sharply until 1940 then decreased for 35 years.”

more here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...climate118.xml

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Jason,

Thanks again for your emotional outburst. You continue to demonstrate your lack of intellectual honesty.

Apparently not everyone agrees with you and rather than present evidence you spout venom.

Nothing emotional about it. I thought it would be a great test.

Sorry if you felt I was "spouting venom".

[Michael Larson]

What are you testing jason1?

Your common sense seems to be a bit lacking IMO

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

What are you testing jason1?

Your common sense seems to be a bit lacking IMO

George wanted a direct link betwen his tail pipe and the environment. Since the earth is a living thing, I thought a small scale test on a man would prove this link.

Or, I could post thousands of pages of testing data on this board that proves green house gasses effect our environment.

Do you, Micheal, believe there is no link between green house gasses and damage to our environment?
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[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Jason1

George wanted a direct link betwen his tail pipe and the environment. Since the earth is a living thing, I thought a small scale test on a man would prove this link.

Are you a Gaia enthusiast? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_theory_(science)

Originally Posted by Jason1

Or, I could post thousands of pages of testing data on this board that proves green house gasses effect our environment.

That probably would not be useful here as it too technical in nature. but go ahead if you fell the need.

Originally Posted by Jason1

Do you, Micheal, believe there is no link between green house gasses and damage to our environment?
</IMG>

Jason, if you would please go back and read my post that asked Claude some questions you will note that for the sake of the discussion I am willing to stipulate that. I then asked some questions in an attempt to think through the consequences of the proposed solutions and their effectiveness.

Of course we are still waiting for someone such as yourself to answer even one of those questions.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Are you a Gaia enthusiast?

No, I'm hetrosexual. Besides, what does that have to do with the conversation

Originally Posted by mlarson

Jason, if you would please go back and read my post that asked Claude some questions you will note that for the sake of the discussion I am willing to stipulate that. I then asked some questions in an attempt to think through the consequences of the proposed solutions and their effectiveness.
Of course we are still waiting for someone such as yourself to answer even one of those questions.

If we argree that man is contributing to global warming and climate change, then what are we debating about?

[George A. H. Luck]

It's OK Michael. I am sure that Jason regretted that outburst as soon as he sent it.

What is interesting is that I have not met anyone who is able to defend man made global warming with fact, rather than the "It's happening so it must be us!" line of "thinking". As I said earlier and perhaps this is what offended Jason1, It is a real belief that most people have about global warming. And it is almost impossible to debate a belief. So many "gore-ites" resort to the emotional rather than the logical when confronted with what by today's P.C. thought police must describe as "bad thought".. Too bad because this could have been an interesting thread.

I wish someone would make the connection between my tail pipe ( other than Jason1's analogy of course) and global warming with fact and not belief.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by gluck

I wish someone would make the connection between my tail pipe ( other than Jason1's analogy of course) and global warming with fact and not belief.

As through much of its history, the Earth's climate is changing. Right now it is getting warmer, likely mostly as a result of human activities (IPCC, 2001; NRC, 2001).

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Jason1

No, I'm hetrosexual. Besides, what does that have to do with the conversation

I am seriously begining to question your reading comprehension.

You mentioned the that "earthing is a living thing" which is the cardinal "truth" of Gaiaism.

Originally Posted by Jason1

If we argree that man is contributing to global warming and climate change, then what are we debating about?

I never said I that I agreed, as Man may be in part a contributor of "green house" gases. The question is how much and to what affect.

Do you not think it would be wise to examine the costs of mitigating the Man caused portion of these gases and examine if the current proposals are the best choices we have?

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by gluck

I wish someone would make the connection between my tail pipe ( other than Jason1's analogy of course) and global warming with fact and not belief.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/...CCAF9-1_En.htm

[George A. H. Luck]

"As through much of its history, the Earth's climate is changing. Right now it is getting warmer, likely mostly as a result of human activities "

Opinion with no supporting fact . . . again.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gluck

. Too bad because this could have been an interesting thread.

I wish someone would make the connection between my tail pipe ( other than Jason1's analogy of course) and global warming with fact and not belief.

I keep hoping.
I wonder if jason owns a fuel burning vehicle or flys airplanes. Maybe he rides a bicyle like a "true believer" should be doing.