Need to know????

[George A. H. Luck]

"Quite a plan isn't it?"

Simplistic at best.
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[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

It's not rocket Science Brian. I wish it was but it remains Junk Science with and agenda.

When the proof is in I may change my view.
The predictions ALL are based on imperfect model of a exceedingly complex system.
But it's not there and the evidence against global warming is mounting.

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU20...SID=c0ae24c54d

What's causing general glacier shrinkage, Michael? Only a small few glaciers are now advancing, and that's attributed to warmer oceans leading to more precipitation!

The "carbon cost" and economic cost of solar makes it a non viable source with present technology. Please do the research. It's not hard to find.

If we can move people to renewables, fewer new power plants will have to be built at a cost of a billion each. We will be saving natgas, which is a declining resource in North America. Did you notice the wholesale cost of natgas has gone from $7.50-8.00 /million BTUs last winter to as high as $13.60 recently. Consumers in Ontario have been told to expect 45%+ price increases by the 2 larger suppliers. Is it speculation or scarcity?? The free market determines the price!!

I'm all for conservation when it's cost beneficial.

We cannot not grow ourselves out of fossil fuel dependency.
We're going to have to change something as fuel prices this high will be lead to more inequities and upset markets. I've done a couple of inspections lately where clients were moving out of suburban McMansions into the city because
of gas prices.

Ethanol for instance has been a scam since it was proposed.
True! not well thought out.

Take the subsidies and mandates away and the Ethanol market would collapse. Big promises that have not been delivered on.

If fuel prices stay this high, I think we're in for a long recession as people cut back on purchases to compensate for high gas. We're seeing this in the auto makers shutting down complete lines and closing plants.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

It's not rocket Science Brian. I wish it was but it remains Junk Science with and agenda.

When the proof is in I may change my view.
The predictions ALL are based on imperfect model of a exceedingly complex system.
But it's not there and the evidence against global warming is mounting.

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU20...SID=c0ae24c54d

What's causing general glacier shrinkage, Michael? Only a small few glaciers are now advancing, and that's attributed to warmer oceans leading to more precipitation!

Are glaciers supposed to be static?
Since glaciers once ranged as well South of Canada's border, would the current crowd of environmentalists demanded the dumping of more CO2 into the atmosphere to heat the planet up?

The "carbon cost" and economic cost of solar makes it a non viable source with present technology. Please do the research. It's not hard to find.

If we can move people to renewables, fewer new power plants will have to be built at a cost of a billion each. We will be saving natgas, which is a declining resource in North America. Did you notice the wholesale cost of natgas has gone from $7.50-8.00 /million BTUs last winter to as high as $13.60 recently. Consumers in Ontario have been told to expect 45%+ price increases by the 2 larger suppliers. Is it speculation or scarcity?? The free market determines the price!!

I heat with NG and see more price increases and yet their is now a plan on the table to power our transportation with NG. At least some think there is plenty.

I'm all for conservation when it's cost beneficial.

We cannot not grow ourselves out of fossil fuel dependency.
We're going to have to change something as fuel prices this high will be lead to more inequities and upset markets. I've done a couple of inspections lately where clients were moving out of suburban McMansions into the city because of gas prices.

Maybe eventually. Increase supply and they can move back to the countryside.

Ethanol for instance has been a scam since it was proposed.
True! not well thought out.

But these illconsidered bio solutions are always promoted at the way out our current situation.

Take the subsidies and mandates away and the Ethanol market would collapse. Big promises that have not been delivered on.

If fuel prices stay this high, I think we're in for a long recession as people cut back on purchases to compensate for high gas. We're seeing this in the auto makers shutting down complete lines and closing plants.

Prices will stay high and get higher if we refuse to increase supply.

[nwagner]

Brian, global warming is a phenomena that has occured in cycles for billions of years. Where is the proof that it is caused today stickly by our so-called greenhouse gas emissions?

[Michael Larson]

Category: Reading the News with your brain engaged

Antarctic ice shelf 'hanging by thread': European scientists

comments in Blue are mine-ML

New evidence has emerged that a large plate of floating ice shelf attached to Antarctica is breaking up, in a troubling sign of global warming, the European Space Agency (ESA) said on Thursday. Images taken by its Envisat remote-sensing satellite show that Wilkins Ice Shelf is "hanging by its last thread" to Charcot Island, one of the plate's key anchors to the Antarctic peninsula, ESA said in a press release.

Oh the Drama-the sky is falling

"Since the connection to the island... helps stabilise the ice shelf, it is likely the breakup of the bridge will put the remainder of the ice shelf at risk," it said.

Meaining what?

Wilkins Ice Shelf had been stable for most of the last century, covering around 16,000 square kilometres (6,000 square miles), or about the size of Northern Ireland, before it began to retreat in the 1990s.

Has it ever been larger or smaller in the more distant past? 100 years is nothing honey

Since then several large areas have broken away, and two big breakoffs this year left only a narrow ice bridge about 2.7 kilometres (1.7 miles) wide to connect the shelf to Charcot and nearby Latady Island.
The latest images, taken by Envisat's radar, say fractures have now opened up in this bridge and adjacent areas of the plate are disintegrating, creating large icebergs.

Are ice bergs something new?

Scientists are puzzled and concerned by the event, ESA added.

Because it doesnt' fit their computer models maybe?

The Antarctic peninsula -- the tongue of land that juts northward from the white continent towards South America -- has had one of the highest rates of warming anywhere in the world in recent decades.

I'll bet those folks are happy about that.

But this latest stage of the breakup occurred during the Southern Hemisphere's winter, when atmospheric temperatures are at their lowest.
One idea is that warmer water from the Southern Ocean is reaching the underside of the ice shelf and thinning it rapidly from underneath.

Do you need more proof that they really have no idea?

"Wilkins Ice Shelf is the most recent in a long, and growing, list of ice shelves on the Antarctic Peninsula that are responding to the rapid warming that has occurred in this area over the last fifty years," researcher David Vaughan of the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) said.

Yep, the climate changes

"Current events are showing that we were being too conservative, when we made the prediction in the early 1990s that Wilkins Ice Shelf would be lost within 30 years. The truth is, it is going more quickly than we guessed."
In the past three decades, six Antarctic ice shelves have collapsed completely -- Prince Gustav Channel, Larsen Inlet, Larsen A, Larsen B, Wordie, Muller and the Jones Ice Shelf.

Like he said it was a guess.

I guess the place will never be the same again

Great reporting by a true believer who probably got a D in science

[Michael Larson]

Category: Those Wacky Scientists

Clean Air Responsible for Half of Global Warming

GOODBYE air pollution and smoky chimneys, hello brighter days. That's been the trend in Europe for the past three decades - but unfortunately cleaning up the skies has allowed more of the sun's rays to pierce the atmosphere, contributing to at least half the warming that has occurred.

"The decrease in aerosols probably accounts for at least half of the warming over Europe in the last 30 years," says Rolf Philipona, a co-author of the study at MeteoSwiss, Switzerland's national weather service.

[Michael Larson]

Category: Another Real Scientist Against Overhyped Alarmism on Global Climate Change

My Position on Climate Change by Hendrik Tennekes

July 14 2008

The so-called scientific basis of the climate problem is within my professional competence as a meteorologist. It is my professional opinion that there is no evidence at all for catastrophic global warming. It is likely that global temperatures will rise a little, much as IPCC predicts, but there is a growing body of evidence that the errant behavior of the Sun may cause some cooling in the foreseeable future.--------------


“Fortunately, the time rate of climate change is slow compared to the rapid evolution of our institutions and societies. There is sufficient time for adaptation. We should monitor the situation both globally and locally, but up to now global climate change does not cause severe problems requiring immediate emission reductions. Successive IPCC reports have presented no scientific basis for dire warnings concerning climate collapse. Local and regional problems with shorter time scales deserve priority. They can be managed professionally, just as the Dutch seem to do.”

[Michael Larson]

Category:Not Science, Just Politics

Peer reviewed science completely ignored by the IPCC and CCSP

These are just three examples of the level to which the scientific method has sunk to in climate science.

Until, and unless the climate science community returns to the proper scientific method of examining the climate system, policymakers will continue to be fed erroneous information. Only poor policy decisions can result due to this failure.

[Michael Larson]

Category:That Pesky Evidence

Proved: There is no climate crisis
Written by Robert Ferguson Tuesday, 15 July 2008

WASHINGTON - Mathematical proof that there is no “climate crisis” appears today in a major, peer-reviewed paper in Physics and Society, a learned journal of the 10,000-strong American Physical Society, SPPI reports.

Christopher Monckton, who once advised Margaret Thatcher, demonstrates via 30 equations that computer models used by the UN’s climate panel (IPCC) were pre-programmed with overstated values for the three variables whose product is “climate sensitivity” (temperature increase in response to greenhouse-gas increase), resulting in a 500-2000% overstatement of CO2’s effect on temperature in the IPCC’s latest climate assessment report, published in 2007.

Lord Monckton’s paper reveals that –

• The IPCC’s 2007 climate summary overstated CO2’s impact on temperature by 500-2000%;
• CO2 enrichment will add little more than 1 °F (0.6 °C) to global mean surface temperature by 2100;
• Not one of the three key variables whose product is climate sensitivity can be measured directly;
• The IPCC’s values for these key variables are taken from only four published papers, not 2,500;
• The IPCC’s values for each of the three variables, and hence for climate sensitivity, are overstated;
• “Global warming” halted ten years ago, and surface temperature has been falling for seven years;
• Not one of the computer models relied upon by the IPCC predicted so long and rapid a cooling;
• The IPCC inserted a table into the scientists’ draft, overstating the effect of ice-melt by 1000%;
• It was proved 50 years ago that predicting climate more than two weeks ahead is impossible;
• Mars, Jupiter, Neptune’s largest moon, and Pluto warmed at the same time as Earth warmed;
• In the past 70 years the Sun was more active than at almost any other time in the past 11,400 years.

Hmmmmm-Now just is the IPCC really up to if they have to make up the data to convince us thee is a crisis??

[Michael Larson]

Category: Unintended Consequences.

Gulf of Mexico "Dead Zone" to Hit Record Size - NOAA
HOUSTON

The Gulf of Mexico's "dead zone" -- a swath of algae-laden water with oxygen levels low enough to choke out marine life -- will likely reach record size this year, and the main culprits are rising ethanol use and massive Midwest flooding, scientists said on Tuesday.

The dead zone, which recurs each year off the Texas and Louisiana coasts, could stretch to more than 8,800 square miles (22,790 sq km) this year -- about the size of New Jersey -- compared with 6,662 square miles (17,250 sq km) in 2006 and nearly double the annual average since 1990 of 4,800 square miles (12,430 sq km).

Scientists from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Louisiana Universities Marine Consortium and Louisiana State University said the algae that lowers oxygen levels in the dead zone is being fed by farm use of fertilizers like nitrogen and phosphorus.

For fishermen who look to the Gulf of Mexico for crabs, shrimp, crawfish and other seafood, the growing dead zone means they must venture farther out into the gulf's waters to find their catch.

The record dead zone is due to soaring use of ethanol in US motor gasoline supplies and by massive flooding in the Midwest earlier this year, scientists said.

[klott]

I agree with these so called experts, the climate is warming,and sea levels are rising, it has been happening, since the last ice age, the part I disagree with, is the cause and speed. All of theVolcanic eruptions over the last 1 hundred years, have probably caused more pollutants and heat to the atmosphere, and oceans, than all of mans activites, since we have been here. To the evolutionistic, tree hugging, the sky is falling, save the whales, mankind is evil crowd, out there, I say, "Don't Sweat it!" evoultion has removed your hair, from your bodies, so you can take the heat. To the creation believing, God fearing, balanced, rational and discerning people who believe God has everything in control, and realize that he controls the earths systems and cycles, know that we ain't seen nuthin yet, but have faith that he will take care of us no matter what happens. To the other rational and balanced thinkers, who recognize fear mongering, and scare tactics used for personal power and monetary gain, but truly understand science and history, I say, good for you, do everything you can, and let it go at that. But make sure, not to empower people, who will make life difficult for others, with their con games, and conspiracy theories.

[nwagner]

Originally Posted by mlarson

• Mars, Jupiter, Neptune’s largest moon, and Pluto warmed at the same time as Earth warmed;
• In the past 70 years the Sun was more active than at almost any other time in the past 11,400 years.

• Holy Batman, our reckless burning of fossil fuels is affecting the sun and other planets! Those poor Martians are paying the price for our indulgence.

[George A. H. Luck]

Attention All Gorites!
Attention All Gorites!

Leave Your Pods Now! I Repeat. Leave Your Pods Now!

M. Larson, K. Lott And N. Wagner Must Be Hunted Down And Re-educated. ( They Should Be Easy To Find. Just Follow The Huge Carbon Foot Prints)

That Is All.
A.g. ( Your Fearless Leader )

[George A. H. Luck]

From Al Gore's speech on solar energy ( to post the entire speech would have put too many of you to sleep).
Does this guy have clue? He obviously thinks that he is the second coming of J.F.K. ( just not as literate )


"The answer is to end our reliance on carbon-based fuels. In my search for genuinely effective answers to the climate crisis, I have held a series of “solutions summits” with engineers, scientists, and CEOs. In those discussions, one thing has become abundantly clear: when you connect the dots, it turns out that the real solutions to the climate crisis are the very same measures needed to renew our economy and escape the trap of ever-rising energy prices. Moreover, they are also the very same solutions we need to guarantee our national security without having to go to war in the Persian Gulf.
What if we could use fuels that are not expensive, don’t cause pollution and are abundantly available right here at home? We have such fuels. Scientists have confirmed that enough solar energy falls on the surface of the earth every 40 minutes to meet 100 percent of the entire world’s energy needs for a full year. Tapping just a small portion of this solar energy could provide all of the electricity America uses. And enough wind power blows through the Midwest corridor every day to also meet 100 percent of US electricity demand. Geothermal energy, similarly, is capable of providing enormous supplies of electricity for America.
The quickest, cheapest and best way to start using all this renewable energy is in the production of electricity. In fact, we can start right now using solar power, wind power and geothermal power to make electricity for our homes and businesses. But to make this exciting potential a reality, and truly solve our nation’s problems, we need a new start.
That’s why I’m proposing today a strategic initiative designed to free us from the crises that are holding us down and to regain control of our own destiny. It’s not the only thing we need to do. But this strategic challenge is the linchpin of a bold new strategy needed to re-power America.
Today I challenge our nation to commit to producing 100 percent of our electricity from renewable energy and truly clean carbon-free sources within 10 years. This goal is achievable, affordable and transformative. It represents a challenge to all Americans – in every walk of life: to our political leaders, entrepreneurs, innovators, engineers, and to every citizen."

OK, Al, how much of the earth's surface do you want to cover in solar cells? Have you noticed that fully 50% of that surface is turned away from the sun at any given time? Have you noticed that 40% of that surface ( land surface) is covered with clouds at any given time? Have you noticed that the production of solar cells is not pollution free? How many windmills are you going to build to harness the wind out west? Have you done any studies to see what effect changing the flow of all that wind will have on the environment? How many species of migratory birds will disappear due to collisions with those windmill blades? How will you transmit all that power from the sparsely populated west to where it is needed ( the heavily populated east) What effect will all those transmission lines have on the environment?

Oh silly me. I already know the answers. Obamma will make it happen.

[Michael Larson]

I just woke up after reading Al Bore's speech. Yawn.

And now for the "news". We're all Doomed
(funny how these press releases happen in, the SUMMER)

EPA issues dire new warning on effects of climate change
by Shaun McKinnon - Jul. 18, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Climate change threatens the health and well-being of every American but could widen the divide between people who can adapt to a more hostile environment and society's youngest, oldest and poorest, a new government report said Thursday.
No area of the country will escape the effects of rising temperatures, from rising sea levels on the Alaskan coast to deadly heat waves in New England, said the report, released by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Arizona and the West sit at a critical crossroads, their growing cities increasingly vulnerable to heat, drought, wildfire, bad air and energy shortages.