Need to know????

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by gluck

I might add; have you read your own links, or is that asking too much?

The Earth's climate has changed throughout history. From glacial periods (or "ice ages") where ice covered significant portions of the Earth to interglacial periods where ice retreated to the poles or melted entirely - the climate has continuously changed.
Scientists have been able to piece together a picture of the Earth's climate dating back decades to millions of years ago by analyzing a number of surrogate, or "proxy," measures of climate such as ice cores, boreholes, tree rings, glacier lengths, pollen remains, and ocean sediments, and by studying changes in the Earth's orbit around the sun.
This page contains information about the causes of climate change throughout the Earth's history, the rates at which the climate has changed, as well as information about climate change during the last 2,000 years.
Causes of Change

Known causes or “drivers” of past climate change include:

• Changes in the Earth's orbit: Changes in the shape of the Earth's orbit (or eccentricity) as well as the Earth's tilt and precession affect the amount of sunlight received on the Earth's surface. These orbital processes -- which function in cycles of 100,000 (eccentricity), 41,000 (tilt), and 19,000 to 23,000 (precession) years -- are thought to be the most significant drivers of ice ages according to the theory of Mulitin Milankovitch, a Serbian mathematician (1879-195. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA) Earth Observatory offers additional information about orbital variations and the Milankovitch Theory.
• Changes in the sun's intensity: Changes occurring within (or inside) the sun can affect the intensity of the sunlight that reaches the Earth's surface. The intensity of the sunlight can cause either warming (for stronger solar intensity) or cooling (for weaker solar intensity). According to NASA research, reduced solar activity from the 1400s to the 1700s was likely a key factor in the “Little Ice Age” which resulted in a slight cooling of North America, Europe and probably other areas around the globe. (See additional discussion under The Last 2,000 Years.)
• Volcanic eruptions: Volcanoes can affect the climate because they can emit aerosols and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
  • Aerosol emissions: Volcanic aerosols tend to block sunlight and contribute to short term cooling. Aerosols do not produce long-term change because they leave the atmosphere not long after they are emitted. According to the United States Geological Survey (USGS), the eruption of the Tambora Volcano in Indonesia in 1815 lowered global temperatures by as much as 5ºF and historical accounts in New England describe 1815 as “the year without a summer.”
  • Carbon dioxide emissions: Volcanoes also emit carbon dioxide (CO2), a greenhouse gas, which has a warming effect. For about two-thirds of the last 400 million years, geologic evidence suggests CO2 levels and temperatures were considerably higher than present. One theory is that volcanic eruptions from rapid sea floor spreading elevated CO2 concentrations, enhancing the greenhouse effect and raising temperatures. However, the evidence for this theory is not conclusive and there are alternative explanations for historic CO2 levels (NRC, 2005). While volcanoes may have raised pre-historic CO2 levels and temperatures, according to the USGS Volcano Hazards Program, human activities now emit 150 times as much CO2 as volcanoes (whose emissions are relatively modest compared to some earlier times).

These climate change “drivers” often trigger additional changes or “feedbacks” within the climate system that can amplify or dampen the climate's initial response to them (whether the response is warming or cooling). For example:

• Changes in greenhouse gas concentrations: The heating or cooling of the Earth's surface can cause changes in greenhouse gas concentrations. For example, when global temperatures become warmer, carbon dioxide is released from the oceans. When changes in the Earth's orbit trigger a warm (or interglacial) period, increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide may amplify the warming by enhancing the greenhouse effect. When temperatures become cooler, CO2 enters the ocean and contributes to additional cooling. During at least the last 420,000 years, CO2 levels have tended to track the glacial cycles (IPCC, 2001). That is, during warm interglacial periods, CO2 levels have been high and during cool glacial periods, CO2 levels have been low (see Figure 1).

Ummm George, I agree there are many factors that contribue to climate change. I posted information on the direct link between man and climate change.

Do you have supporting documents that says man has nothing to do with climate change?

[Michael Larson]

Jason,

Start with this:

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/index.html

[Jason1]

In 1988, the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Meteorological Organization WMO established the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), consisting of more than 300 of the world's leading experts, to investigate climate change.
The IPCC concluded, both in 1990 and in 1992, that a doubling of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will lead to "serious consequences for the world's social, economic and natural systems". Among other things, the IPCC concluded that emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities contributes to the natural greenhouse effect and will lead to an additional warming of the atmosphere. The IPCC estimated that a doubling of CO2 would lead to a global warming of 1.5 to 4.5 degrees C.

[George A. H. Luck]

efforts to reconstruct temperatures of the past one to two millennia (see Figure 2) and place the Earth's current warming in historical context (NRC, 2006).

• There is a high level of confidence that the global average temperature during the last few decades was warmer than any comparable period during the last 400 years.
• Present evidence suggests that temperatures at many, but not all, individual locations were higher during the past 25 years than any period of comparable length since A.D. 900. However, uncertainties associated with this statement increase substantially backward in time.
• Very little confidence can be assigned to estimates of hemisphere average or global average temperature prior to A.D. 900 due to limited data coverage and challenges in analyzing older data.

Now Jason1 reread this again and again and see if anything sinks in. I have highlighted various interesting bits in red with underlining to make full use of your obvioulsy limited attention span.

There is enough material here to make anyone but the worst blockhead realize that there are still important questions to be answered and linkages to be made before we all jump in bed with the Global warming club.

Think Jason1. That is all I am asking. THINK!
( by the way in the other study you quoted says some interesting things about growth rates of plants see 3.2.2.4 effects of increased atmospheric co/2

[George A. H. Luck]

Jason, exactly how do you prove a negative?
Still not thinking ?

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Jason,

Start with this:

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/index.html

Thanks, he agrees man has an effect.

Who is he, and what are his qualifications?

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by gluck

Jason, exactly how do you prove a negative?
Still not thinking ?

I see you have learnt from the "Micheal School of Belittling."

I have still not seen anything that concludes that man has nothing to do with climate change George.

I don't even think your buddy Micheal would agree with your assessment that man has no effect on climate change.

You walked off the cliff on that one George.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Jason1

Thanks, he agrees man has an effect.

Who is he, and what are his qualifications?

jason, you are NOT paying attention. I already stipulated that Man has a affect. What's the percentage is not as important as asking the questions:

What can be done about?

What is the cost?

Is the money better spent somewhere else?

Read this and try again.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st278/st278a.html

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

jason, you are NOT paying attention. I already stipulated that Man has a affect. What's the percentage is not as important as asking the questions:

What can be done about?

What is the cost?

Is the money better spent somewhere else?

Read this and try again.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st278/st278a.html

YOU are not paying attention.

I have given my opinion on what should be done.

AGAIN, what do you propose??

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Jason1

YOU are not paying attention.

I have given my opinion on what should be done.

AGAIN, what do you propose??

If you read the link I posted You have my answer.

Does it look like something worth at least considering?

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

If you read the link I posted You have my answer.

Does it look like something worth at least considering?

I think it's important to look at all options. You seem to think I have made a committment to Koyoto, when in fact I think this is the first time I have ever brought it up.

We agree (well, George doesn't) that man has an effect on climate change, my point is this:

We should be doing whatever we can in our day to day lives to lessen the footprint we are making on this earth. It's just the right thing to do.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Jason1

We should be doing whatever we can in our day to day lives to lessen the footprint we are making on this earth. It's just the right thing to do.

Well I don't think it's the "right" or "smart" thing to do.

Let try a few practical examples:

Is it right buy auto fuel consisting of Ethanol that takes more energy to produce than it yields?

Is it more cost effective to pay $1 for something that lasts 2 years or $2 for something that lasts 5 years?

Should society spend $____________ to maybe (and it's a big maybe) reduce "global warming" or should society spend $___________ to eradicate diseases like malaria that kills millions.
(Known benefits as opposed to hopeful benefits)

I could go on but this shhold make the point.

[Jason1]

Well then, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

I guess time will tell.

[Michael Larson]

jason1 you have shown a predictable unwillingness to answer questions. You will have to examine for yourself why that is the case.

Since this thread is getting a decent number of views, I want to invite questions from others who are watching. I am not an expert by any means just an very interested consumer and taxpayer. I want to see those who govern us be as informed as possible and gather enough information to make good choices. We are the ones who ultimately pay for whatever they decide on our behalf. We can only hope they will choose wisely. What I see happening is very discouraging but there is always hope that we can change attitudes by getting better informed ourselves and being an influence on those around us.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by mlarson

jason1 you have shown a predictable unwillingness to answer questions. You will have to examine for yourself why that is the case.

Since this thread is getting a decent number of views, I want to invite questions from others who are watching. I am not an expert by any means just an very interested consumer and taxpayer. I want to see those who govern us be as informed as possible and gather enough information to make good choices. We are the ones who ultimately pay for whatever they decide on our behalf. We can only hope they will choose wisely. What I see happening is very discouraging but there is always hope that we can change attitudes by getting better informed ourselves and being an influence on those around us.

I have answered all your questions, we disagree on what we should do about the problem at hand. Your reaction to disagreement is to belittle the other person. It is no wonder no one else replies to this thread.

You have a problem respecting any other opinion that differs from your own, you will have to examine for yourself why that is Micheal.

Good Luck.