Outdoor furnaces

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Heck of a lot more efficient to burn corn directly than to make Ethanol out of it.

Wassa matter Michael, the price of cornflakes getting a bit high for you??

Yes I am kinda joking, just in an ironic kinda way

Regards

Gerry

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Wassa matter Michael, the price of cornflakes getting a bit high for you?? Gerry

You priced a box of cereal lately?
The folks from south of the border will be asking for a raise to buy tortillas.

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by mlarson

You priced a box of cereal lately?
The folks from south of the border will be asking for a raise to buy tortillas.

Such is the price of ecology, thats the great thing about Macro Ecomonics, it's like the choas theory, you start turning corn into methanol and it has the same effect as a butterfly flapping its' wings in Japan.

Let the fun begin

Regards

Gerry

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Let the fun begin

Yeah, I can hardly wait for gas to be $4.00 a gallon this summer.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

I just heard on a program the total amount of fuel and other energy it takes to produce the corn to produce the ethanol to add to the fuel puts us into the the negative column big time. Also heard some time ago they are discovering that ethanol is contributing significantly to their green house effect. uh oh.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dedwards

I just heard on a program the total amount of fuel and other energy it takes to produce the corn to produce the ethanol to add to the fuel puts us into the the negative column big time. Also heard some time ago they are discovering that ethanol is contributing significantly to their green house effect. uh oh.

True, now when will the politicians admit it?

They mandated 20% Ethanol gasoline in neighboring Minnesota by 2013.
I wonder if they will change the law in light of the current science.

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by dedwards

I just heard on a program the total amount of fuel and other energy it takes to produce the corn to produce the ethanol to add to the fuel puts us into the the negative column big time. Also heard some time ago they are discovering that ethanol is contributing significantly to their green house effect. uh oh.

Doug, that is one perspective, and one I happen to agree with, the amount of energy it takes to turn corn into methanol makes it unrealistic as a fuel for regular gas burning engines (the diesel issue is different)

Regards

Gerry

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Yeah, I can hardly wait for gas to be $4.00 a gallon this summer.

Michael, why is that? the oil producing countires are not producing less oil, the spot price of oil is based on supply side economics is it not. The plain fact is that the current biggest influence on American gas prices is a weak dollar.

Even if we produced enough gas out of the gulf/alaska to sustain US needs the price would not drop, real economics dictates that it would be sold to the highest bidder which would not be the US given the current exchange rates.

Regards

Gerry

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

The really ugly little secret is the lion's share of what you pay for gasoline at the pump is taxes or one kind or another. I was looking into some energy ventures a few months back and one figure I kept seeing was the oil companies take on a gallon of gas was around 51 cents. The owner of the store or gas station was only 3-4 cents on the gallon and the rest was Federal, State, County and City taxes. Kind of like the take on cigarettes. The politicians make the tobacco producers and oil companies and other big industry out to be the boogy man when it is them all along with their grubby little hands in our pockets. As what someone sent me today. If the Dems and Repub are both against deficits, how come we still got one? Just go down the list of all the things they keep telling us out here in the real world what they are against and are going to correct but never do. Time to clean house right down to the janitors and start over with people who can get things done. I hate politicians.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Michael, why is that? the oil producing countires are not producing less oil, the spot price of oil is based on supply side economics is it not. The plain fact is that the current biggest influence on American gas prices is a weak dollar.

Even if we produced enough gas out of the gulf/alaska to sustain US needs the price would not drop, real economics dictates that it would be sold to the highest bidder which would not be the US given the current exchange rates.

Regards

Gerry

Gerry, While the crumbling US dollar is part of the reason for the rise in prices at the pump(oil is traded in US dollars), I haven't given up on supply/demand economics. Demand is increasing so if supply stay constant prices will rise. We can't make OPEC pump more oil to increase supply so they are hanging us out to dry.

IMHO if the US made a commitment to increasing it's native supply it would send a strong signal to the markets and prices would fall. There is a lot of speculation gong on no as well and it's the traders that are profiting along with the oil producers.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Gerry, While the crumbling US dollar is part of the reason for the rise in prices at the pump(oil is traded in US dollars), I haven't given up on supply/demand economics. Demand is increasing so if supply stay constant prices will rise. We can't make OPEC pump more oil to increase supply so they are hanging us out to dry.

IMHO if the US made a commitment to increasing it's native supply it would send a strong signal to the markets and prices would fall. There is a lot of speculation gong on no as well and it's the traders that are profiting along with the oil producers.

AAAHHHH!!! The free market......gotta love it.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

AAAHHHH!!! The free market......gotta love it.

What do you prefer?
A managed economy and 5 year plans?

Let's hear your ideas for a better system.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

What do you prefer?
A managed economy and 5 year plans?

Let's hear your ideas for a better system.

No, Michael.....I like it! Been in the private sector and open marketplace for well over 1/2 of my working life. It's just that people love it when it works for them and then *****, *****, ***** and blame the gov't when it goes against them.

I would like to see better antitrust and anti-competition laws with real prison sentences. Longer sentences and restitution for white collar crime. Huge sentences for defrauding /overbilling gov't (that's our money), bribes, etc.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

No, Michael.....I like it! Been in the private sector and open marketplace for well over 1/2 of my working life. It's just that people love it when it works for them and then *****, *****, ***** and blame the gov't when it goes against them.

I would like to see better antitrust and anti-competition laws with real prison sentences. Longer sentences and restitution for white collar crime. Huge sentences for defrauding /overbilling gov't (that's our money), bribes, etc.

Sorry Brian, I thought you were being sarcastic. My bad.

Government causes far more problems than it solves IMHO.
To many people look at government as a sugar Daddy with deep pokets. Trouble is those deep pockets are always someone else's.

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

AAAHHHH!!! The free market......gotta love it.

Brian, your missing Michaels point, he supports a free market, just so long as it works to his model

Regards

Gerry