Professional or Trade Association.

[wblakey]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Some of it came from an interview I did where InterNACHI is being considered for inclusion in the "10 Best Run Trade Associations in the World." I argued the InterNACHI should not be included as we are not an "institutional" trade association and really not "run" in the traditional sense of the word. You'll hear him say exact quotes from me, word for word, found in the archives of this message board. See some of my posts explaining why we don't do much planning and why we permit annonymous posters who rarely contribute.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/c...aboration.html

That is an awesome lecture, I recommend everyone to watch it from start to finish.

Some interesting quotes:

"Forming an institution is inherently exclusive."

"Institutions hate being told they are obstacles."

For those of you who don't get it yet, iNACHI is an experiment in forming community. That is why it is so hard for existing institutions formed before the internet came into existence (ASHI, CAHPI etc) to understand the free flowing, eternally changing aspect of this crazy online group.

Though at times it might seem the opposite, this is actually a cooperative system.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Pure, unadulterated bullcrap.

Alright, God, what's your solution to setting up and maintaining a governable organization that all will recognize as professional (with real penalties for breaches of trust, valid buyer complaints, a democratic governance, and on and on)?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Alright, God, what's your solution to setting up and maintaining a governable organization that all will recognize as professional (with real penalties for breaches of trust, valid buyer complaints, a democratic governance, and on and on)?

The solution is for you, Bill, and others to stop trying to create an exclusive club that will perpetually ensure to the world that its members are above reproach.

Don't be afraid to stand alone...on your own merit and on your own qualifications....in a competitive market who will, on its own sometimes choose someone of lesser quality for reasons you will not understand or identify with.

Don't focus upon the lowest qualified inspector and understand that, in every group you will ever form, there will be someone who made it into it by the skin of their teeth and a bit of luck.

Recognize that there are professional graduates of Harvard and Yale in prisons throughout the United States who also number among the "elite" in someone's book.

The solution is to be a better home inspector than your competitor and trust the consumer to choose quality whenever he can afford to.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by jbushart

The solution is for you, Bill, and others to stop trying to create an exclusive club that will perpetually ensure to the world that its members are above reproach.

Don't be afraid to stand alone...on your own merit and on your own qualifications....in a competitive market who will, on its own sometimes choose someone of lesser quality for reasons you will not understand or identify with.

Don't focus upon the lowest qualified inspector and understand that, in every group you will ever form, there will be someone who made it into it by the skin of their teeth and a bit of luck.

Recognize that there are professional graduates of Harvard and Yale in prisons throughout the United States who also number among the "elite" in someone's book.

The solution is to be a better home inspector than your competitor and trust the consumer to choose quality whenever he can afford to.

Jim:

While I appreciate your fatherly advice, I must advise you that none of what I have done for the industry in the past couple years will help me personally. I have a very busy, successful multi-inspector company and have had for fifteen years. I know what works in the Canadian marketplace and that's why I want to help others.

As to your last comment, the consumer can't afford NOT to choose quality.......ever.

Bill Mullen

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bmullen

As to your last comment, the consumer can't afford NOT to choose quality.......ever.

Bill Mullen

And there is the rub...

Your goal is to reduce the customer's choice to what you feel is best for them.

Didn't work well, economically, in the Soviet Union, either.

If you were an honest man, you would publicly admit what many already know....and that is your desire is to eliminate competition from those that you feel are unworthy. You want to define the playing field as to who may and who may not compete against you.

The customer should be the person who determines his needs and who should/should not be in business. That is called free enterprise and it works very well.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by jbushart

And there is the rub...

Your goal is to reduce the customer's choice to what you feel is best for them.

Didn't work well, economically, in the Soviet Union, either.

If you were an honest man, you would publicly admit what many already know....and that is your desire is to eliminate competition from those that you feel are unworthy. You want to define the playing field as to who may and who may not compete against you.

The customer should be the person who determines his needs and who should/should not be in business. That is called free enterprise and it works very well.

Jim:

You and I could likely have a very spirited, healthy debate, but as long as you insist on calling me dishonest, you can babble to yourself. Remember that you know nothing about the Canadian system and especially about the Canadian Home Inspection industry. Do some objective research and maybe you will be able to see there is more to this than meets the eye.

Bill Mullen

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jbushart

The solution is for you, Bill, and others to stop trying to create an exclusive club that will perpetually ensure to the world that its members are above reproach.

Don't be afraid to stand alone...on your own merit and on your own qualifications....in a competitive market who will, on its own sometimes choose someone of lesser quality for reasons you will not understand or identify with.

Don't focus upon the lowest qualified inspector and understand that, in every group you will ever form, there will be someone who made it into it by the skin of their teeth and a bit of luck.

If you have an organiziation that sets a high standard, then even the lowest qualified should do a decent inspection. Other than that you get the diploma mill types, those with a flashlight, ladder, cards and "Post It" notes masquerading as HI's. As a group or even fraternity (women are included), we should be concerned for our overall image, protection of the buying public not just our own pocketbooks. We are a gregarious species and form communities, volunteer groups, churches, governments, local sports teams/leagues not just ourselves but for a common good also. Why be different in the HI industry?

Recognize that there are professional graduates of Harvard and Yale in prisons throughout the United States who also number among the "elite" in someone's book.

The solution is to be a better home inspector than your competitor and trust the consumer to choose quality whenever he can afford to.

What about the working, 2 small income family, that are striving for the dream of home ownership, no matter how small it is. They especially don't deserve or need a poor inspector......they don't have extra funds to correct any missed items or take a poor HI to court.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bmullen

Jim:

You and I could likely have a very spirited, healthy debate, but as long as you insist on calling me dishonest, you can babble to yourself. Remember that you know nothing about the Canadian system and especially about the Canadian Home Inspection industry. Do some objective research and maybe you will be able to see there is more to this than meets the eye.

Bill Mullen

My research (as to your position on this issue) is limited to your posts.

You are not unique. We have many in the United States who profess an undying commitment to the consumer to see that all of their "unworthy" competitors are prohibited from performing home inspections, as well.

And we don't believe them, either.

What you are wanting to achieve through some club, association, designation or what-have-you....has been tried with licensing. And...as your attempts with clubs, associations and designations have fallen short of their goals in your country.....so has licensing in ours.

A consumer in Illinois ... a licensed state....will still pick an unlicensed inspector who will tell him what he wants to know for $125. It happened yesterday in O'Fallon, Illinois at 2:00 p.m. and happens every day.

None of your ideas for reform are consumer driven....just like the licensing scams. Yet...for reasons that only they know...inspectors who push these scams still expect the consumer to support them...and they don't.

Until they do....they will continue to fail.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by jbushart

My research (as to your position on this issue) is limited to your posts.

You are not unique. We have many in the United States who profess an undying commitment to the consumer to see that all of their "unworthy" competitors are prohibited from performing home inspections, as well.

And we don't believe them, either.

What you are wanting to achieve through some club, association, designation or what-have-you....has been tried with licensing. And...as your attempts with clubs, associations and designations have fallen short of their goals in your country.....so has licensing in ours.

A consumer in Illinois ... a licensed state....will still pick an unlicensed inspector who will tell him what he wants to know for $125. It happened yesterday in O'Fallon, Illinois at 2:00 p.m. and happens every day.

None of your ideas for reform are consumer driven....just like the licensing scams. Yet...for reasons that only they know...inspectors who push these scams still expect the consumer to support them...and they don't.

Until they do....they will continue to fail.

Sorry, Jim, but 500 Canadian Inspectors disagree with you, many more are signing on each month, and several consumer groups thinks my dream of the National certification Program is the best thing to ever hit the industry. The NCP was and is totally consumer driven and monitored.

Once again you don't know what you are saying, but that sure won't stop you from saying it.

Bill Mullen

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bmullen

Sorry, Jim, but 500 Canadian Inspectors disagree with you, many more are signing on each month, and several consumer groups thinks my dream of the National certification Program is the best thing to ever hit the industry. The NCP was and is totally consumer driven and monitored.

Once again you don't know what you are saying, but that sure won't stop you from saying it.

Bill Mullen

Were you not as equally enthusiastic about another such group that was to be the solution to the underqualified inspector in Canada?

How did that one eventually evolve?

[Nick Gromicko]

Ray, read all my posts from the threads arguing with Joe Michalsky last year over why we don't do master planning. And post after post of why we permit an open to all message board.

Anyway, what Jim says has quite a bit of truth to it. Remember, if you count the U.S. as 52 separate states ranging from no regulation to heavy handed licensing, InterNACHI figured out how to thrive under roughly 100 different governments. I won't say that we know exactly what to do... but I will say that we know exactly what not to do. Here is what not to do... create an organization built around certification. Never let certification come even close to 1% of what you do, and you will succeed, for a few reasons. The real problem with a certification-only organization, especially in Canada, is that you have at least 3 Provinces thinking about or about to adopt their own certification (licensing) process. The lead legislators from all 3 have publicly said that they won't be using OAHI, RHI, InterNACHI, ASHI, CAHPI, NCP, CMI or anything from private associations. Oh they may look at the work we've all done in this certification area and take this from that and that from this... but to a certification-only organization, a government isn't an ally, it's the well funded competitor who will make you irrelevant. Dip your toe into their pool if you want, for now, but have the rest of your body in education, technology, deals, professional development, marketing, unregulated ancillary inspections, commercial inspections, internet tools, events, insurance, legal services, document production, video, business success tools, and all the other space governments don't and won't ever occupy.

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Were you not as equally enthusiastic about another such group that was to be the solution to the underqualified inspector in Canada?

How did that one eventually evolve?

Nope. I'm a one trick pony as they say. I've been promoting the National Certification Program for almost a decade in one way or another.

Bill Mullen

[Tyler Knelsen]

First of all, since this is my first post, I would like to say hello to all the InterNACHI members. It took me a while to decide to join a home inspection association and when I decided to join, it took me a while to decide which one. I am extremely pleased that I chose InterNACHI. This is a truly professional organization and I have already learned a lot of new things just from reading the threads on this message board. You are a great bunch of people.

Now back on topic so that hopefully my post doesn't end up hijacking this thread.

I see home inspectors as professionals. Regardless of whether you have a professional or trade background, I believe quality home inspecting is a profession. In most cases, as a home inspector, you are a business owner, a salesman, an advertiser, you adhere to a code of ethics, and you are dedicated to the safety, health, and welfare of the public (in this case home owners and buyers).

Someone who does all of this, and does it well, is a professional.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Tyler I agree, but most particularly with your very last statement in your post. Where I have issue is the that it is difficult to generalize that all home inspectors fit into that category.

Definitions include "a person that engages in an activity with great competence".

Before one can achieve great or exceptional competence they first must be "competent". Whether we like it or not - or whether we belong to an association or not as "home inspectors"; this occupation needs to address the various levels of competence that exist - "one size does not fit all". That is where other specific levels of competency is assessed and measured to help define the professional attributes of those home inspectors willing to increase and validate their level of competency.

[Tyler Knelsen]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Definitions include "a person that engages in an activity with great competence".

Before one can achieve great or exceptional competence they first must be "competent". Whether we like it or not - or whether we belong to an association or not as "home inspectors"; this occupation needs to address the various levels of competence that exist - "one size does not fit all". That is where other specific levels of competency is assessed and measured to help define the professional attributes of those home inspectors willing to increase and validate their level of competency.

Well said and true.