Quiz time

House built in 1978. Saw this in the attic.

I know what it is but here are the questions for inspectors who may not know what it is but want a guess.

  1. What is it?
  2. What concerns does this raise if any?
  3. What else should be inspected if you find this?
    $. What recommendations should you make to the client?


Clue: Red and blue wires run the length of the attic and are joined like this every 2 feet or so.

clue: Don’t let the lack of insulation fool you. Look between the lines.

I’ll give it a shot:

Really very rare in my neck of the woods.

1 Electric radiant heating system
2 Potential fire hazard
3 Ensure breakers or fuses are properly sized.
4 Have it inspected or reviewed by a qualified contractor yearly

Did I get it right?

Cheers

I’ll go with Doug’s assessment. Ceiling heat cable.

Some of those systems were recalled (note: even the CSA got sued).

http://www.consommateur.qc.ca/

Radiant Ceiling Heating Panels: Final notice

Version française]
CANADA
PROVINCE OF QUEBEC
DISTRICT OF MONTREAL
NO : 500-06-000011-946
SUPERIOR COURT
(Class Action)
ASSOCIATION DES CONSOMMATEURS POUR LA QUALITE DANS LA CONSTRUCTION (ACQC)
Petitioner
-and-
SYLVAIN BOUCHARD & CHANTAL ARCHAMBAULT
Designated persons
V.
*FLEXEL INTERNATIONAL *
-and-
THERMAFLEX LTD
-and-
CANADIAN STANDARDS ASSOCIATION
Respondents
NO : 500-06-000010-948
ASSOCIATION DES CONSOMMATEURS POUR LA QUALITE DANS LA CONSTRUCTION
Petitioner
-and-
GUSTAVE DERY
Designated person
V.
FLEXWATT CORPORATION
-and-
CANADIAN STANDARDS ASSOCIATION
Respondents
**FINAL NOTICE **
**FILING OF CLAIMS – September 8th, 2000 **
ATTENTION : PLEASE READ THIS NOTICE, IT MAY AFFECT YOUR RIGHTS.
This notice is addressed to all individual owners of residences heated by Radiant Ceiling Heating Panels (RCHP) manufactured by Flexel International, Thermaflex LTD or Flexwatt Corporation when the Régie du Bâtiment du Québec issued a notice to disconnect in 1994.

  1. Take notice that on September 5th 2000, the honorable Maurice Lagacé, Superior court judge for the Montreal district has approve the settlement between l’Association des consommateurs pour la qualité dans la construction et al. and the respondents Flexel International, Thermaflex LTD, Flexwatt and their subsidiary corporations and the Canadian Standards Association.
    2. The class action is aimed by the following groups :
    “All owners of a residence heated by Radiant ceiling heating panels which were manufactured by Flexel International for Thermaflex LTD and merchandised mainly under the following names : Safe-T-Flex MK4 and MK5, Aztec-Flexel Scotland, Thermo-flex Scotland, Thermaflex or Flexel International, Aztec-Flexel, Safe-T-Heat” (No : 500-06-000011-946);
    AND
    “All owners of a residence heated by Radiant ceiling heating panels of the Flexwatt 13 watts type or more which were manufactured by Flexatt Corporation” (No : 500-06-000010-948).
    3. SUMMARY OF THE SETTLEMENT
    The settlement provides for the following :
    a) Payment by respondents of a lump sum of $6,000,000 in full and final settlement of the class actions;
    b) The following sums will be deducted from the above-mentioned sum: a sum of $208,856.64 will be paid to the claims administrators in order to process the claims; a sum of $5,303.23 to reimburse all judicial and extra-judicial disbursements (to be adjusted) and a sum of $1,000,000 (plus taxes) to Groups’ counsel for judicial and extra-judicial professional fees;
    c) The balance of about $5,000,000 (to be adjusted) will be divided among all admissible claimants (approximately 2,700 possible claims) in proportion to the power output of the heating system installed by each claimant;
    d) For example, a claimant having had only one room heated by radiant ceiling heating panels will receive a smaller compensation than a claimant whose entire residence was heated by such films;
    e) If, for example, all claims refer to a heating systems of same power output, each claimant will receive the sum of $1,850, which represents about 84% of the average cost for the replacement of his or her heating system.
    4. RIGHT OF EXCLUSION **
    Members of the Class who do not agree with the Settlement may exclude themselves. Any member who wishes to be excluded from the Class and the Settlement must send a request to be excluded by registered or certified mail, to the Clerk of the Court, by October 10th, 2000. This request must be sent to the Clerk of the Superior Court (1 Notre-Dame Street East, Suite 1.175, Montreal (Quebec) H2Y 1B6), with reference to file numbers 500-06-000011-946 and 500-06-000010-948. This request must be made in writing and include the following information :
    a) the name and address of the member wishing to be excluded and the court’s record number;
    b) the name of the manufacturer;
    c) a statement to the effect that he or she is a member of the Class affected by this Settlement and wishes to be excluded.
    5. CLAIMING PROCEDURE **
    a) All members of the present class action have a right to file a claim if they have not excluded themselves. To do so, they must complete the Claiming Form approved by the Court and enclose all required documents.
    b) You can obtain the Claiming Form by writing to the Claims administrators at the following address :
    Association des consommateurs pour la qualité dans la construction (ACQC)
    2226, boul. Henri-Bourassa Est, bureau 100
    Montréal (Québec) H2B 1T3
    E-mail : acqc@consommateur.qc.ca
    c) Your Claiming Form and all relevant documents must be sent to the Claims administrators by April 10th, 2001, failing which you will lose your right to be compensated.
    d) The approved Claims should be paid around the month of November 2001.
    e) The content of this notice and its publication have been approved by the Court.
    MONTREAL, SEPTEMBER 8th, 2000
    Group’s counsel :
    Me Jean-Pierre Fafard
    Sylvestre Charbonneau Fafard
    740, rue Atwater
    Montréal (Québec) H4C 2G9
    E-mail :
    jpfafard@scf-avocats.com

    Claims Administrators :
    Association des consommateurs pour la qualité dans la construction
    2226 boul. Henri-Bourassa Est, bureau 100
    Montréal (Québec) H2B 1T3
    E-mail : acqc@consommateur.qc.ca

I think I would amend my first response, based upon what Marcel has posted:

3 Who manufactured the heating system. Is it a system mentioned in the action?

4 Advise the client to disconnect the system, if active, and see if they are entitled to the settlement mentioned in the
above action.

PS I was not aware of the lawsuit and the settlement.

Cheers

Doug,

That settlement is for Quebec resident only and it may be different in Ontario and it is now past due time for any settlement, in Quebec that is.

Thanks for the info Marcel.

I will now waffle back to my original response.

Cheers

Hey Len:

What is your response?

You’re not pulling a KW are you?

Cheers

Sorry for the delay guys, busy updating the OntarioACHI services. I find it difficult to be in two places at the same time. :smiley:

You got it almost right Doug. They are ceiling radiant heat panels, there was a class action lawsuit against ThermaWatt. The CSA did get included. The manufacturers re-made the panels and from 1990 the original manufacturer re-issued installation instruction.

From what I can identify, the panels were never actually banned in Ontario, but the risk is still there.

The Electrical panel should actually have a sticker identifying that the radiant panels are installed, and for safety sake, if they are still operational should be connected to an AFCI.

They should never be installed as the sole heat source.

The correct recommendation is, regardless of the manufacture or install date, as always, “Further inspection by a licensed master electrician is recommended”.

Personally I can’t see the point in heating the ceiling. Heat rises, and you would be spending a fortune in electricity heating the insulation which should be laid on top.

Author-edit: Further information

They are difficult to see in an attic because of the fact they are covered by insulation. These were easy to see because the insulation had been removed in this attic because of a fire. Fire wasn’t related to the panels in this case.

What is also interesting to note, was that the soffit baffle was not installed correctly. It did not come down to a level where it would stop the blown insulation covering the soffit vents.

In fact, whoever installed then didn’t even line them up with the vents that were in the soffits, so had little or no understanding of how they worked.