Scare Tactics for Licensing in Ontario

[Allen Cavdek]

Well said John.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gluck

My point Claude has always been " Grandfather everyone. Get all inspectors INSIDE the association. THEN set your standards and upgrade EVERYONE."

But instead, OAHI, PHPIO, CAHPI chose to exclude everyone except the people THEY deemed acceptable. Then one must ask who set the standards and what, other than guess work and personal opinion were these standards based on?

Other than the benefits of strength through numbers, representation at both Federal and Provincial levels ( that will be listened to), reduced insurance rates, access to health and accident insurance, lobbying for universal E+O insurance, equality of members ( no elitism of 'industry leaders') and many more, there is one particular word that the other associations are deathly afraid of; GRANDFATHERING.

By GRANDFATHERING every inspector and getting them inside the union, the union can then set entrance requirements which will become the defacto 'Ontario License'. The difference is that EVERY member will have a voice in the design of the requirements which makes it very fair.

Oh yes. That is another word of which these private home inspector associations are very frightened ; DEMOCRACY.

If the motives behind licensing were genuine and not self serving, you might be able to inspire such a movement.

The problem is...proponents already see themselves as being "grandfathered" because each proponent argues that his level of skill is where the bar should be set. Licensing has always been, and will always be, something we do to "the other guy".

Proponents of licensing do not argue that consumers need to be protected from "them". Consumers need to be protected from their competitors who lack something they have.

To license everyone....then, to create schools that will crank our fresh graduates with licenses every six weeks, like they do in New York, will glut the market even more.

Nice thought....but even proponents of licensing bills would argue that they are better off without licensing anyone than to license everyone.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Home inspection is a discipline that requires special training, knowledge and communication skills.

However, there is presently no mandatory certification and no legislated requirement for home inspectors to take any courses or to have passed any tests. Anyone can say that they are a home inspector. That is why it is important to choose an inspector wisely.

Reputable home and property inspectors generally belong to a provincial or regional industry association. These associations have set standards, which, in some cases, are recognized by provincial governments. Some associations have developed membership categories based on the individual members’ qualifications. In most provinces, a member cannot advertise or promote his or her membership in the association until they have reached the minimum standards of a practicing member. Standards may vary from province to province.

Source - CMHC Hiring a Home Inspector

James notes: The problem is...proponents already see themselves as being "grandfathered" because each proponent argues that his level of skill is where the bar should be set.

Worth repeating...so how do we reach agreement?

[tadshead]

Consider the OAHI, which is pushing hard to become the main licensing agency for Ontario...

One of the requirements as it is now, is that you have to have 200 paid inspections (down to 100 if you've been in the business for two years).

Think about what this says...

"If you aren't a member of OAHI, you don't have the best evidence of an inspector's competence and professionalism"

Yet to get it, you have to do at least 100 (or more) paid inspections. How does this make any sense at all? They are encouraging people to go out and charge for services that they claim are inadequate without their piece of paper, which you can't get without going out and charging for the service....

I think the confusion and chaos surrounding the industry will remain for a few years yet. When organizations can't even agree with their own statements, it's a sign that there are many more changes to come before anything gets 'settled'.

The idea of a union to cover all inspectors does bother me though, almost as much as governmental licensing does. All a union will accomplish is to a) take more of our money, b) to exclude people based on the whims of the union rep, and c) ensure that incompetence is protected as long as you can keep your nose clean long enough to gain seniority.

[James H. Bushart]

The union idea is laughable.

First...the union will agree to establish a fee.

Inspectors choosing not to belong to the union will simply set a fee a few dollars lower and advertise that he chooses, as a conservative, to not let the union dictate to him or to the public what to charge.

Non-union home inspectors will be overworked. Lowballers will become heroes.

Home inspectors in Canada need to stop thinking like contractors. Licensing and unionizing are not solutions...they are problems.

Individual competition....not socialized home inspection....allows the cream to rise to the top and the incompetent to fail. Unions and licenses hide the incompetents. That's why government employees have unions.

[George A. H. Luck]

Rest assured James, that the union has no intention of dictating to anyone. In fact the BOD encourages every inspector to belong to whatever associations they want and achieve whatever qualifications that these groups want to dictate.

With all inspectors in the 'big tent' it is the same cream rising to the top just as you said. The difference is that in Ontario, for the first time there will be an organization recognized by the government that welcomes all inspectors, not just friends and so called "industry leaders". Every inspector will have a voice in what standards are set if they so choose and will not be subject to the requirements set by, as you said, those who already have them.

The "industry leaders" have lead the Ontario Inspector down a blind Alley and we now see them aligned with the Real Estate industry in an attempt to foist their vision of licensing on us. That is not a situation that is to anyone's benefit and it is a situation borne of elitism. The union will welcome all home inspectors and give them their first real chance to change that situation.

It's called ' DEMOCRACY'.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gluck

Rest assured James, that the union has no intention of dictating to anyone. In fact the BOD encourages every inspector to belong to whatever associations they want and achieve whatever qualifications that these groups want to dictate.

With all inspectors in the 'big tent' it is the same cream rising to the top just as you said. The difference is that in Ontario, for the first time there will be an organization recognized by the government that welcomes all inspectors, not just friends and so called "industry leaders". Every inspector will have a voice in what standards are set if they so choose and will not be subject to the requirements set by, as you said, those who already have them.

The "industry leaders" have lead the Ontario Inspector down a blind Alley and we now see them aligned with the Real Estate industry in an attempt to foist their vision of licensing on us. That is not a situation that is to anyone's benefit and it is a situation borne of elitism. The union will welcome all home inspectors and give them their first real chance to change that situation.

It's called ' DEMOCRACY'.

Along with democracy is the right of dissent.

While all may have "input", not all will agree with the outcome and, thus, not all will participate. Those who choose to operate outside of the union may have more credentials and experience than many from within...and might even draw higher fees.

You will still have non-Union home inspectors and Union home inspectors....each claiming that the other is not qualified to inspect a home.

[John A. Umpleby, CMI]

Hi James,
I don't believe the point of the union would be to discredit non-union home inspectors. It would be to allow those, who choose to enter, to have their voice count. The union is different from the other associates in that it will not discredit anyone who simply chooses not to enter. That is not what this is about. As an example, not all electritians are part of their union, however, they are not infighting between those that are, and those that arn't. As previously stated, the union will offer benefits such as strenght in numbers, equal voice on matters that affect our industry, reduced cost of health care benefits, insurance and access to legal fees. Those that wish to operate their business as non-union members will not be belittled or punished for it. The electritians do not put down non-union members or criticize their credentials. This is not about dictating rates, standardizing fee's or dissention, it is about offering an alternative to the other associations who are looking to put down anyone who is not a member of their group and try to bring our industry together.

John

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jumpleby

Hi James,
I don't believe the point of the union would be to discredit non-union home inspectors. It would be to allow those, who choose to enter, to have their voice count. The union is different from the other associates in that it will not discredit anyone who simply chooses not to enter. That is not what this is about. As an example, not all electritians are part of their union, however, they are not infighting between those that are, and those that arn't. As previously stated, the union will offer benefits such as strenght in numbers, equal voice on matters that affect our industry, reduced cost of health care benefits, insurance and access to legal fees. Those that wish to operate their business as non-union members will not be belittled or punished for it. The electritians do not put down non-union members or criticize their credentials. This is not about dictating rates, standardizing fee's or dissention, it is about offering an alternative to the other associations who are looking to put down anyone who is not a member of their group and try to bring our industry together.

John

Looking beyond the original intent...which is always honorable and good....leaves you with two groups. Unionized and non-union, competing against each other.

Within the union there will be struggles for power. Those who gave input and lost by two votes will not simply give in and accept the standards others want to impose upon them. Read through these threads and learn that for yourself.

Too many former contractors enter the rank of home inspector who have no idea of marketing concepts. The concept that it elevates all of us to advertise that my competitor is a good home inspector, but these are the things that make me better, is way over their heads. Only doctors and lawyers do that. All they know how to do is trash their competitor.

The warm and fuzzy feeling of brotherhood is a temporary deal. Been there and done that.

[George A. H. Luck]

"Those who gave input and lost by two votes will not simply give in and accept the standards others want to impose upon them."

James, what part of that great American system called democracy do you not understand? One man. One Vote ( well excepting Chicago of course) This sytem is responsible for electing some pretty good Presidents over the years. Just because one party has it's hat handed to it, does not mean that they take their marbles and go home, or actively attempt to destroy the administration ( with the exception the last eight 'Bush years')

That's how the system works. You bring your ideas to a vote and win or lose. It is the ability of every member to vote on the issue that is the most important part.

As for your predictions; you may be right. But avoiding these distractions gives us something to aim for. Perfection will always be out of reach but at least we can try to give our fellow inspectors the kind of union organization they can participate in and feel that their voices have been heard. It will be an entirely different world from the one we have now where 'industry leaders' climb in bed with the Real Estate industry and falsly claim that 40,000 realtors are on the march against us.

ccihi@ripnet.com

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gluck

"Those who gave input and lost by two votes will not simply give in and accept the standards others want to impose upon them."

James, what part of that great American system called democracy do you not understand? One man. One Vote ( well excepting Chicago of course) This sytem is responsible for electing some pretty good Presidents over the years. Just because one party has it's hat handed to it, does not mean that they take their marbles and go home, or actively attempt to destroy the administration ( with the exception the last eight 'Bush years')

That's how the system works. You bring your ideas to a vote and win or lose. It is the ability of every member to vote on the issue that is the most important part.

As for your predictions; you may be right. But avoiding these distactions gives us something to aim for. Perfection will always be out of reach but at least we can try to give our fellow inspectors the kind of union organization they can participate in and feel that their voices have been heard. It will be an entirely different world from the one we have now where 'industry leaders' climb in bed with the Real Estate industry and falsly claim that 40,000 realtors are on the march against us.

ccihi@ripnet.com

It doesn't always work the same way with unions as countries.

When I lose my vote with the union...unlike a presidential election, i have two choices. I can stay in the union and work under the rules I voted against and disagree with, or I can forfeit my membership and run my business as I see fit.

Some guys will stay...others will leave.

You will have inspectors attempting to convince the public, as now, that union membership is necessary to ensure a quality inspection. You will have non-union inspectors pointing at their lesser qualified union counterparts and argue that they simply oppose "price fixing" to appease mediocrity.

Polarization will still be there....within the union....and without.

[George A. H. Luck]

"Polarization will still be there....within the union....and without."

"That's life . . . ." - Sinatra '65

I would hope that members would have the strength of their convictions and work to see that they were represented even if they did not win the vote. Any administration that ignores the wishes of a large minority is not long on the seat of power ( no reference to the current tenants of the White House intended )

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gluck

"Polarization will still be there....within the union....and without."

"That's life . . . ." - Sinatra '65

I would hope that members would have the strength of their convictions and work to see that they were represented even if they did not win the vote. Any administration that ignores the wishes of a large minority is not long on the seat of power ( no reference to the current tenants of the White House intended )

Most home inspectors will do what is needed to advance their business than their cause, I'm afraid. History of home inspection associations support that. Look at the mass exodus that inspectors took...leaving ASHI...when they disagreed with the ASHI decision to collect money from members to advance the "branding program".

We know that licensing solves nothing....but the union is an alternative to licensing that does even less.

[George A. H. Luck]

[John A. Umpleby, CMI]

George...you bored??