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  #1  
Old 11/3/08, 1:16 PM
Claude Lawrenson's Avatar
Claude Lawrenson Claude Lawrenson is offline
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Post Shut-off valves

Do you report on the presence or absence of shut-off valves at fixtures, etc on the plumbing system?



Cheers, Claude Lawrenson NACHI03121515
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  #2  
Old 11/3/08, 1:19 PM
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ROBERT W. NEWLAND, JR. ROBERT W. NEWLAND, JR. is online now
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

I just report on the main water shut-off location. On second thought, I've never ran into a fixture (toilet/sink faucet) that didn't have it's own shut off. I probably would report on that as an FYI.



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  #3  
Old 11/3/08, 1:28 PM
cboyd cboyd is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

I do now, I did an inspection in june, noted that water heater was 10 + years old. No problem we will change to gas after we move in. Received a call after the closing, mild complaint that it cost them extra to have it replaced due to no shut off valves and they needed to be installed. I agree they should be able to isolate the tank to change it or service, I think it may even be code. So yes I do now.
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Old 11/3/08, 1:28 PM
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Claude Lawrenson Claude Lawrenson is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Good point - "I've never ran into a fixture (toilet/sink faucet) that didn't have it's own shut off" - but what would you did if you did run into a plumbing system that did not have them (other than the main shut-off)?

I agree that it should be pointed out as an improvement for servicing and replacement of fixtures.



Cheers, Claude Lawrenson NACHI03121515
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  #5  
Old 11/3/08, 2:21 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
Claude,

I would think that it would be of importance to the homeowner to know this information.

Actually, I think it should be in the Ontario Building Code requirements-Part 7
For the clients information only.

For single family dwellings, the national code (Section 6.1.3 POTABLE WATER SYSTEMS) requires shut-off valves at:
1) water service pipe where it enters the building
2) every water closet
3) supply water line to hot water tanks (close to the tank)
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  #6  
Old 11/3/08, 2:43 PM
jkogel jkogel is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

I report presence or absence of shutoffs under all sinks, at the toilets and at the water heater. It's an easy check of basic plumbing, and a major pain when they are missing at reno time. I recently saw a townhouse with a leaky faucet, no sink shutoffs and no main shutoff except out at the street.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca
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  #7  
Old 11/3/08, 2:47 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

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Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
Hi Brian,

It is a little bit more complicated then what you have stated my friend. I will not go into it, but do yourself a huge favour and read the OBC again before you offer code advice.
Re-read the post. The above was listed from the open NPC in front of me!!

Fill me in on the OPC!
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  #8  
Old 11/3/08, 3:40 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
What are the OPC and NPC? Your computer keys must have dyslexia; did you mean OBC and NBC?

The NBC is the National Building Code and the NPC is the National Plumbing Code, a separate and distinct document. I just found out that Ontario has included their own plumbing requirements in the OBC, not many jurisdictions do that, they keep the codes separate.

Most jurisdictions use the 4 model national codes as the basis for their own codes or simply adopt the national codes as the codes for their province.

You mentioned shut off valves at only a few locations Brian; The OBC has many requirements for shut off valves. My beef, it doesn't have requirements for shut off valves at kitchen/washroom basins. What's your beef?
What are the other requirements, I don't have the OBC. The NPC requires only the above mentioned shut-offs on the supply system.

Last edited by Brian A. MacNeish; 11/5/08 at 7:30 AM..
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  #9  
Old 11/3/08, 3:58 PM
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Claude Lawrenson Claude Lawrenson is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

The issue in this instance is not code compliance, but rather could home inspectors be possibly overlooking the obvious. In this scenario a client could easily claim that possibly a $1000 in plumbing repairs may be caused by the home inspector simply overlooking shut-off valves. How would you handle such a claim?

This is not my concern, but one brought forward from a dissatisfied consumer. Assuming the plumbing needs updating and the fixtures are going to be replaced. The $1000 does not include the plumbing fixtures.



Cheers, Claude Lawrenson NACHI03121515
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  #10  
Old 11/3/08, 4:19 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
Far too many to list Brian, here are just couple.

7.6.1.7. Public washrooms

(1) The water supply to each fixture in a washroom for public use shall be individually valved and each valve shall be accessible.

7.6.1.9.
Protection for exterior water supply

(1) Every pipe that passes through an exterior wall to supply water to the exterior of the building shall be provided with a frost-proof hydrant or a stop-and waste valve located inside the building and close to the wall.

and don't forget about apartment buildings.
We established we are talking about single family dwellings!!! And in new housing today that I inspect, frost-proof hydrants are installed.....the stop-and-waste valve is not required!! Any other requirements in the supply system for single family dwellings ??
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Old 11/3/08, 5:28 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
We did?
I referenced homeowners would find this information usefull, but "WE" haven't establised anything in terms of family dwellings as the topic.
The topic is Shut off Valves.

BTW Where do you do your inspections?
Listen, I-I, don't try to back out!!

This board is mostly about residential inspections! You mentioned "homeowners" and I said "single family dwellings" in post #7...no retort from you! Learn how to read, go buy your credentials somewhere or maybe earn them by doing the Carson/Dunlop course. You're quite something......saying that their course is beneath you!!

Here's a quote from a former member of the ESOP committee; is this you??
"In case you are not aware, NACHI is notorious among vendors for how little its members are willing to actually pay for products and education. Outside of NACHI, however, there are inspectors who are paying for materials and training and are rewarding the good vendors with their business."

Last edited by Brian A. MacNeish; 11/3/08 at 7:53 PM..
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  #12  
Old 11/3/08, 5:54 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

[quote=Inspector Inspector;433892]
Quote:


It is not mostly about residential inspections Brian.



InterNACHIcomsop-2008




InterNACHIcomsop-2008
This edition of InterNACHIcomsop was revised and approved as an International Standard on 05/10/2008, and supersedes all previous editions.
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A real newbie playing with the big boys!! You haven't been here long enough to read the threads.....not very much commercial stuff in these threads!!!
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  #13  
Old 11/3/08, 5:59 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
Brian,

Please stop passing yourself off as an Building Code Expert.
Now, have we changed the topic??? How sad!!!

I'm not calling myself a building code expert but I know who to call when I need the assistance such as preparing for expert witness in court. BTW, the top building code official (an architect) for my province hired me to do the pre-purchase inspection of his present home!!

Last edited by Brian A. MacNeish; 11/3/08 at 7:54 PM..
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  #14  
Old 11/3/08, 6:25 PM
Brian A. MacNeish Brian A. MacNeish is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector View Post
Raymond,

Why do feel the need to be validated? Why do you answer for Brian? Why do you have the need to be correct..allways? It appears that you and Brian work in tandem here on this message board to discredit targeted individuals.
Rarely except for today and when Mario goes off the deep end!!

Boy!!! What a pair you and supermarion are going to be!! Keep talking to him/her.

Did he hire you to take some pressure off himself.....Too bad.....he earned it!!
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  #15  
Old 11/3/08, 7:17 PM
scorcoran scorcoran is offline
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Default Re: Shut-off valves

And there goes another perfectly good thread. Guys come on. I've tried to stay out of this. I'm new to inspections and as much as everyone is always on here bashing each other for their lack of education I come on here for just that... education. This was a very valid post that started off well. A healthy debate on code is great for someone trying to learn something. But it always turns into the rantings of like 3 people. Can you just grow up already? I will never take one side or another. It's funny that all of you including Brian, Ray, Mario, Inspector inspector or some other odd ball name and many others have all given me assistance and knoweldge. If everyone on here knows as much as they claim couldn't you just be more helpful? Seems like you all want one thing RESPECT. Well my friends that is something that is earned and I can tell you that your behaviour on here isn't earning you any.

Sorry, I'm sure i'm gonig to get loads of reds, but I just couldn't hold back any more.... Guys please put an end to this. Would you have your children or for you older gentleman (i use that term loosely) grandchildren read this and behave in this sort of way? I would hope not.

By the way, on the topic... I think I would report it as a recommendation (cover your butt right?)

Last edited by scorcoran; 11/3/08 at 7:21 PM..
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