Shut-off valves

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Inspector Inspector

I rest my case, Raymond answers for Brian and Brian answers for Raymond.

Raymond, go play with Brian.

Thanks for bringing this up John!! so true.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by scorcoran

And there goes another perfectly good thread. Guys come on. I've tried to stay out of this. I'm new to inspections and as much as everyone is always on here bashing each other for their lack of education I come on here for just that... education. This was a very valid post that started off well. A healthy debate on code is great for someone trying to learn something. But it always turns into the rantings of like 3 people. Can you just grow up already? I will never take one side or another. It's funny that all of you including Brian, Ray, Mario, Inspector inspector or some other odd ball name and many others have all given me assistance and knoweldge. If everyone on here knows as much as they claim couldn't you just be more helpful? Seems like you all want one thing RESPECT. Well my friends that is something that is earned and I can tell you that your behaviour on here isn't earning you any.

Sorry, I'm sure i'm gonig to get loads of reds, but I just couldn't hold back any more.... Guys please put an end to this. Would you have your children or for you older gentleman (i use that term loosely) grandchildren read this and behave in this sort of way? I would hope not.

By the way, on the topic... I think I would report it as a recommendation (cover your butt right?)

Sean,

Don't waste your time with the macneuish or the wand.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Do you report on the presence or absence of shut-off valves at fixtures, etc on the plumbing system?

Claude,

They are not required for most fixtures (e.g. sinks) and I do not report on their absence in those areas.

They are required at entrance, water closet(s), water heater (s) and hose bib(s) and will report if missing in those areas.

I've noted many frost proof hose bibs without shut-off valves inside house (a valve without a valve) and that get mentioned in my report.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Claude,

They are not required for most fixtures (e.g. sinks) and I do not report on their absence in those areas.

They are required at entrance, water closet(s), water heater (s) and hose bib(s) and will report if missing in those areas.

I've noted many frost proof hose bibs without shut-off valves inside house (a valve without a valve) and that get mentioned in my report.

Marcel:

Does Quebec adopt outright the National Plumbing Code or adopt & adapt
the national for Quebec purposes? In the national, the frost-proof bib does not require an inside shut-off.

Section 6.1.4. 1) Every pipe that passes through an exterior wall to supply water to the exterior of the building shall be provided with
a) a frost-proof hydrant, or
b) a stop-and-waste c-o-c-k located inside the building and close to the wall.

ed: note the above hyphenated word which was deleted is code language!!

[scorcoran]

What if its a frost free hose bib?

<edit> Looks like Brian beat me to it

[Buck Hartley, CMI]

I report it.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by scorcoran

What if its a frost free hose bib?

<edit> Looks like Brian beat me to it

It's an exterior hose bib with a long valve stem down the barrel of the pipe and connected to the valve and valve seat located 8 to 12 inches in from the house exterior........ thus is always warm (in theory).

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

It's an exterior hose bib with a long valve stem down the barrel of the pipe and connected to the valve and valve seat located 8 to 12 inches in from the house exterior........ thus is always warm (in theory).

Did you read that in a book?

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

For the clients information only.

For single family dwellings, the national code (Section 6.1.3 POTABLE WATER SYSTEMS) requires shut-off valves at:
1) water service pipe where it enters the building
2) every water closet
3) supply water line to hot water tanks (close to the tank)

This is Brian MacNeish's original post,

John Lee AKA Inspector Inspector corrected him and now Brian is an expert at frost free hose bibs.

Too Funny!

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Marcel:

Does Quebec adopt outright the National Plumbing Code or adopt & adapt
the national for Quebec purposes? In the national, the frost-proof bib does not require an inside shut-off.

Section 6.1.4. 1) Every pipe that passes through an exterior wall to supply water to the exterior of the building shall be provided with
a) a frost-proof hydrant, or
b) a stop-and-waste c-o-c-k located inside the building and close to the wall.

ed: note the above hyphenated word which was deleted is code language!!

Brian,

I don't do code inspection but surely you would agree that a *c-o-c-k* situated inside would make sense...

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

Did you read that in a book?

No, just typed it for a description since I didn't have a graphic or picture. Give us something better quickly!

BTW, you didn't ask about the "in theory" part. Guess you don't wan't to know the situation that causes these frost-proof hydrants to freeze up!! You have to ask questions if you're going to learn!!!

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Brian,

I don't do code inspection but surely you would agree that a *c-o-c-k* situated inside would make sense...

Only in one situation not thought of or required by the codes!! But as you see the national does not require an inside stop and waste valve/c-o-c-k. What does Quebec code call for?

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

The issue in this instance is not code compliance, but rather could home inspectors be possibly overlooking the obvious. In this scenario a client could easily claim that possibly a $1000 in plumbing repairs may be caused by the home inspector simply overlooking shut-off valves. How would you handle such a claim?

This is not my concern, but one brought forward from a dissatisfied consumer. Assuming the plumbing needs updating and the fixtures are going to be replaced. The $1000 does not include the plumbing fixtures.

Yes, Claude, that is why we report absence or presence under the sinks. Nothing to do with code requirements. If the home is older and has been reno'd, with or without a permit, the buyer just wants to know, "How hard will it be to change the faucet?"

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

...located 8 to 12 inches in (in theory).

Brian,

*in theory* being the majic words here...

· For The Record: The hose bib (exterior faucet) is the long-stem “frost-free” type. These faucets are designed not to retain water in them after they are shut off, so they are less prone to freezing in wintertime. However, our experience is that these faucets are not always reliable. We have come across a few instances where the “frost-free” hose bib has frozen up during severely cold weather conditions. In most cases, this is due to improper installation or slow leak. Frozen pipes can split, risking a flood in the basement and considerable water damage. For added protection, we recommend a second shut-off valve on the water supply to the hose bib be installed inside the house so you won’t have to rely on the frost-free hose bib alone...

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

This is Brian MacNeish's original post,

John Lee AKA Inspector Inspector corrected him and now Brian is an expert at frost free hose bibs.

Too Funny!

Inspector Inspector tried to correct me but he hasn't shown me any other required shut-off valves in single family dwellings with municipal water supply other than what I quoted from the national code. Your a BCQ type of guy, can you help me?? Is the OBC that different from national?