Shut-off valves

[Claude Lawrenson]

Thank you for the comments.....interesting to say the least.
A few stuck to the point and made us aware that we cannot always depend on the SOP as the Standard that clients expect to protect them.

The reason I ask is this issue seems to come up time and time again as "part" of the plumbing system. How can we inspect one part and choose to ignore other critical parts?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Thank you for the comments.....interesting to say the least.
A few stuck to the point and made us aware that we cannot always depend on the SOP as the Standard that clients expect to protect them.

The reason I ask is this issue seems to come up time and time again as "part" of the plumbing system. How can we inspect one part and choose to ignore other critical parts?

But we can't call these valve misses at sinks, tubs etc as defects that the seller should correct or give funds up for the buyer to correct. If we call them, it will make a house built to today's codes look bad. It's something to be approached with a bit of tact when explaining to your client!

[Claude Lawrenson]

So in a 1950's home can we assume that there would be no need to warn the client about the potential cost upgrading in general? When does a shut-off valve become a health or possibly a safety concern? Upstairs at a bath tub for that nice new ceiling, or how about at a simple plumbing leak in a wall causing leakage and eventually mold development.

Or how about flooding the basement after a week-end away? Yes a cheap little shut-off valve can initially cost very little, but potentially cause thousands of dollars in damages.

Would you not call out a defective or missing TPR valve? What about applying a similar concern about any pipe conveying hot - pressurized water?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

So in a 1950's home can we assume that there would be no need to warn the client about the potential cost upgrading in general? (I'm finding the missing, non-required valves in new houses. It was standard or a courtesy to put them in older homes!

When does a shut-off valve become a health or possibly a safety concern? Upstairs at a bath tub for that nice new ceiling, or how about at a simple plumbing leak in a wall causing leakage and eventually mold development. The main water shut off should take care of that

Or how about flooding the basement after a week-end away? (shut the main valve off when away)Yes a cheap little shut-off valve can initially cost very little, but potentially cause thousands of dollars in damages. (how so?)

Would you not call out a defective or missing TPR valve? What about applying a similar concern about any pipe conveying hot - pressurized water?

The individual shut-offs are certainly a convenience but should not be a big item in an inspection!!!

[Allan G. Berdahl, CMI]

I don't think the question asked was if it was a big deal to report the existance of shutoff valves but wether we reported missing or no shutoff valves.
Myself, I let my clients know in the report that there are no shutoff valves associated with the sink faucets and that if repairs are required for the faucets that the main house shutoff would have to be turned off. I then let them know that it is advisable that they provide shutoff valves for convenience in the future as they do repairs to existing faucets.
What does it hurt to provide a little extra professionalism and assistance to your client. My take on an effective report is not only to advise of existing problems but problems they may encounter in the future(along with remedies) and of course, little extras for their betterment in the future.

Allan

[Claude Lawrenson]

Thank you Allan, you have captured the essence of our professional responsibility. I also agree that shut-off valves are not "normally" included in the SOP, except for the main shut-off valve that are specifically noted.

Now explain why to a licensed plumber......

The issue is not an issue relating to National Certification. It's one regarding differences in communication for reporting of what an inspector inspects, or chooses to ignore and provide no comment on at all that could impact the homeowner.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

From a previous post of Claude's but still unanswered:

"Yes a cheap little shut-off valve can initially cost very little, but potentially cause thousands of dollars in damages. (how so?)"

Regards

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by RHI Inspector

Brian, I fail to understand how a cheap little valve can cause thousands of dollars in damages. A leak is a leak whether there is a shut off valve or not.

Me too!! Thus my "How So?" in blue.

[Marcel Gratton]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHI Inspector
Brian, I fail to understand how a cheap little valve can cause thousands of dollars in damages. A leak is a leak whether there is a shut off valve or not.

Me too!! Thus my "How So?" in blue.

A cheap little valve leaking could cause a lot of damage to floor, wall and/or ceiling below, especially if going unnoticed for a prolonged length of time...no?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHI Inspector
Brian, I fail to understand how a cheap little valve can cause thousands of dollars in damages. A leak is a leak whether there is a shut off valve or not.

Me too!! Thus my "How So?" in blue.

A cheap little valve leaking could cause a lot of damage to floor, wall and/or ceiling below, especially if going unnoticed for a prolonged length of time...no?

Have to answer a question with a question!!!

An expensive high quality little valve leaking could cause a lot of damage to floor, wall and/or ceiling below, especially if going unnoticed for a prolonged length of time...no?

Maybe the fewer valves, the better since each valve has 3 more potential leakage points than a solid unbroken pipe!

[relliott]

I always call out lack of shutoff valves.
All the plumbing work I have done has taught me their importance.

Anyone not seeing the need ,has not done much plumbing. Period.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by relliott

I always call out lack of shutoff valves.
All the plumbing work I have done has taught me their importance.

Anyone not seeing the need ,has not done much plumbing. Period.

Exactlly!

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Maybe the fewer valves, the better since each valve has 3 more potential leakage points than a solid unbroken pipe!

Maybe that is why they are not required (code) for fixtures...no?

Regardless, I still recommend them for hose bibb's even if frost free types simply because homeowners neglects to disconnect garden hose in fall.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by RHI Inspector

Robert, Its not a case of seeing the need its a case it is not a code requirement nor a requirement of the SOP fwiw.

Raymond Wand

Stop with the BS you moron.

[relliott]

Originally Posted by RHI Inspector

Robert, Its not a case of seeing the need its a case it is not a code requirement nor a requirement of the SOP fwiw.

You do not need any stinking code to call out need, health , safety , or financial problems.

I call it using your noodle and not just memorizing code.

Put it this way, if a light is non operational but not required does it matter?