Thermal cameras ?

[David A. Andersen]

I would have to profess that in viewing this thread in its entirety, it's all about the haves and have not!

Yes, some of us have some capital to work with.
Yes, the economy really sucks!
Yes, some home inspectors feel that decrease liability that results in $197,000 liability in lawsuits savings is a substantial income/savings?

No, no one is saying that all inspections must include infrared.
No, no one is saying everyone must have one. No one is forcing you to participate in the offerings of NACHI!
No, NACHI is not making a living on cameras and training! For Christ's sake, I got 100% of my required state continuing education requirements for free last year! At the same time I spent $3400 and other education, elsewhere. That's my choice.
No, John McKenna is not gouging the NACHI home inspectors of America in his infrared training program for $500 when the next best option is three times that amount. Most of this inspection training costs hardly cover time, travel, overhead expenses.

Who are we to damn those that are trying to make a living? Go look in the mirror! You have some information beyond that of what the general populace knows and your selling it! You're just a damn vendor too? Every one of us here as one reason for our presence, to get ahead. Yes we even compete amongst ourselves. However there is a lot more offered in good faith then you are find anywhere else in the world!

How many of you solicit business?
How many of you get pissed off when somebody else solicits business at you?
Get a grip!

Really the point of all of this is if you don't like it, just shut up.

Nobody says you have to have a camera. Nobody says you have to get on the bandwagon. Nobody says you have to buy anything.

Current thermal imaging camera owners are simply trying to relate the unbelievable benefit that this technology can afford the home inspector and wants to share to those who may consider these options. We are trying to get those that are getting involved to do it right and not make a bad name for ourselves.


We're not trying to change the world.

People are making money on us! Well Gee whiz! What the hell are "we" doing here? Working for charity?

[David A. Andersen]

Even though the controversy started with one simple question - most answers and responses have not addressed the issue. The issue is whether or not it is advisable that home inspectors employ expensive high-tech equipment to carry out "visual" inspections under their Standards of Practice.

What kind of answer are you looking for Rudolph?

Nobody says that you have to exceed the standards of practice. Nobody says that you can't. Down here in the US of A., are state laws specifically state that we can exceed the requirements set by state law.

As Joel Farsetta pointed out, there are issues of liability and insurance coverage that you should consider. This is all about business Rudolph. This is not a McDonald's franchise. We do not have to flip our burgers all the same way.

Just because you feel demoralized because you don't have the resources to keep up with the technology of the business, does not mean you can't fill a slot in the industry.

You should be exhilarated in the fact that many of these home inspectors are totally getting away from the basic home inspection and getting into industrial, commercial and advanced residential home inspections that have high chances for litigation in some cases.

You can do the same " visual" old home inspection you have always done.
Like our "budget breaks" franchise that fixes your car breaks for $69. Many of us who are proactive can afford to have our brakes fixed for $69. Some of us totally neglect our brakes until there are sparks flying from our wheels! Don't go to the $69 specialist and expect you'll get out of there for $69!

[ldapkus]

Bcam on sale here

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dandersen

I would have to profess that in viewing this thread in its entirety, it's all about the haves and have not!

Yes, some of us have some capital to work with.

Yes and some of us have the capital and still can't make the numbers work.

When the camera was $12K I could see the benefits.

Now that they are $5K I still see them.

But just to add another tool the the tool box is not enough.

Are any of the camera guys or gals making more money because of this investment?

We all know it's nice to have but honestly would your businesses be any less successful without it?

[bdoles2]

Are any of the camera guys or gals making more money because of this investment?

Yes of course. I don't buy things just to look cool. It's an investment to step up business - bottom line.

We all know it's nice to have but honestly would your businesses be any less successful without it?

Your business can only be as successful as you want it. If you don't want to take the next step and launch additional services into your business plan, then my all means keep doing what you do to maintain business.

I like change, I like technology and I most certainly like to learn what it takes to run a successful business. There have been a lot of bumps in the road to figure out what works and what doesn't.

IR has opened doors for me that would not have been there in the past. I've learned a lot about my business and myself since venturing into IR.

Business I didn't have before:
1.) direct relation and referrals from mold companies
2.) working with large commercial contractors for their IR needs (i.e. masonry grouting)
3.) working with property management companies to investigate leakages and the extent of damage as well as other concerns.

This is just from my personal experience. I'm sure others are involved in industrial and manufacturing environments as well.

[Michael Larson]

Sounds like it's working out well for you Brian. Good.

I share your love of technology but have not come to the same conclusion as you as of this time. That may change.

Let's hear from some others.

[John McKenna]

Thank you Nick for creating the worlds largest HI pepsi machine...LOL.

[David A. Andersen]

Well, as you sit there and try to formulate a mathematical equation to determine if the homebuyer in Wisconsin, USA is willing to pay you a profit for offering the service, there are others out there "doing it".
I spent 12 years doing home inspection without doing a single marketing plan other than giving him my business card to former clients. Now, with the change in the economy I decided to get on board with a marketing campaign that all of you have been doing most of your business lives. The first thing I found was that I didn't know anything about anything (so I have a learning curve). Second, I'm behind the curve and there is no way I can get in front of those that came before me without investment of a significant period of time. Their longevity is what I must compete with, not increased service. My website has a significant infrared inspection theme. I can't get past all the inspectors who create websites about infrared services that they don't provide!
As I posted earlier, you cannot replace "experience/time in service" with technology.
Anyway, back to my initial point. As you sit around trying to figure that you're actually going to make five cents on the dollar investment, when it's time to get going you are about 1 1/2 years behind the curve, as well as $5000 short.
This is not a reason to act, however it's a reason to consider. You think I can open a business by selling discount dot matrix printers these days? Does anybody remember what these are?
Instead of fighting about the issues on a public forum, why not gather up some contacts and referral links with somebody in your area that does perform this service and can increase the value of your services without reducing your income?
Instead of saying to the whole world that thermal imaging is a waste of time and insignificant, why not add it to your list right next to the HVAC referrals that majority of home inspectors refer out to when I don't have a clue, resources or technology to make a definitive assessment of the equipment? In the process you'll probably get rid of a bunch of competing home inspectors!

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dandersen

Nobody says you have to have a camera. Nobody says you have to get on the bandwagon. Nobody says you have to buy anything.

Really?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dandersen

Instead of saying to the whole world that thermal imaging is a waste of time and insignificant, why not add it to your list right next to the HVAC referrals that majority of home inspectors refer out to when I don't have a clue, resources or technology to make a definitive assessment of the equipment? In the process you'll probably get rid of a bunch of competing home inspectors!

Don't take it so personal David.

I never said it "was a waste of time" so please don't infer I did.

This is a discussion not a war.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

For an experienced inspector, Mario, that's to be expected and a "no thought needed" call. I have called this many times simply by lifting the hose (which is improperly installed in the first place and will collect condensation).

I remember one place, a bungalow, where the owner installed a high quality, low sone bath fan controlled by a timer. When trying the fan, it sounded louder than it should. I looked in the attic and saw the problem (it was February....a drooping plastic hose loop. I asked the owner (it was a private sale and the owner was in the house for the inspection.) if I could take the water out of his fan duct......could you get me a pail or some other container? I guessed that more that 2 liters drained from the hose!!

Although the washroom vent pipe is an issue [not proper vent pipe, not insulated and vented into the roof vent] you could not see the water intrusion with the naked eye. The moisture that is shown with the IR image is from a failed roof covering [ashpalt shingles] and improper flashing around the chimney.

[Claude Lawrenson]

In response to Mario's picture/comment directed at me.

I can clearly see that insulation is "stuffed" into the overhangs between rafters based on the first image. That in itself should automatically set the need to report a significant deficiency, and concerns with ventilation.

[mbenerowski]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

For an experienced inspector, Mario, that's to be expected and a "no thought needed" call. I have called this many times simply by lifting the hose (which is improperly installed in the first place and will collect condensation).

I remember one place, a bungalow, where the owner installed a high quality, low sone bath fan controlled by a timer. When trying the fan, it sounded louder than it should. I looked in the attic and saw the problem (it was February....a drooping plastic hose loop. I asked the owner (it was a private sale and the owner was in the house for the inspection.) if I could take the water out of his fan duct......could you get me a pail or some other container? I guessed that more that 2 liters drained from the hose!!

I


I'm a fairly new home inspector and I have taken John's IR course. I think Mario is trying to identify the moisture in the far lower edge of the roof

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

So will we now have a new category of inspector called Superman with thermal vision rather than X-ray vision? Hmmm....is that now Inframan?

Claude - still using my natural born senses including the development of common sense!

Claude and all,

What are your thoughts on CAHPI's past president and NC#001 *Inframan Mullen* target during John M's packed IR class in TO last week?

http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachmen...1&d=1218945625

Wouldn't you agree that he's aiming for the top?

Regards,

[Bill Mullen]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Claude and all,

What are your thoughts on CAHPI's past president and NC#001 *Inframan Mullen* target during John M's packed IR class in TO last week?

http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachmen...1&d=1218945625

Wouldn't you agree that he's aiming for the top?

Regards,

Yes, Marcel, I have ordered my cape, but I can't find any tights in my size (that's a good thing).

John taught a heck of a lot of good stuff. I didn't come away from that class thinking I was an expert, but I sure uploaded a huge amount of inofrmation into this old brain.
What I like about John's class was that while he showed us many ways to use the camera during a Home Inspection, he spent almost as much time showing us the pitfalls of hasty conclusions and explaining over and over the many limitations we had to work under using this technology.
John also made it very, very clear that we had to do many, many hours experiementing with the camera to become more conversant with its operation.

All the best

I. M.