Wood Foundations

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

For all of you who would like to know more about PWF's come on out to the "Great Lakes-East Chapter" Event in April. (Davison, Michigan - Just east of Flint off I-69)

Friday, April 13, 2007

Learn about: (Chapter Meeting)
**Nu-Wool WALLSEAL cellulose insulation.
**WaterFurnace geothermal heating and cooling systems.

Saturday, April 14, 2007

Permanent Wood Foundation's (PWF's) for Home Inspectors (Open to All) (8 hour course)
PWF's are becoming more popular every day. All wood basements can be dryer, warmer and last longer then traditional block or poured foundations if they are designed and constructed correctly.

This will prove to be a very interesting weekend with a lot to learn for all!

More info can be found at the Chapter WebSite.

[jschulte]

People keep saying they can be better than concrete. Why?

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

Originally Posted by jschulte

People keep saying they can be better than concrete. Why?

1] More energy efficient. (heat loss/ heat gain)
2] Dryer (When designed & installed properly)

They are designed to divert water away from the foundation! Not to keep the water out!

3] Studies are showing that they retain their value better then block & poured foundations.
4] Cost less to finish the basement as living space.
5] Construction time can be cut by up to a week or more!
6] They can be installed where traditional basements can not!

They have been installed below the water table in many areas and are still dry!

On the Down Side
1] You must hire a proper engineer to design the foundation.
2] The installer must be watched during the entire installation process.

Most do not understand that they are designed to divert the water rather then to push back the water like traditional basements.

3] When installing plumbing & electrical you can not run horizontal runs... they all must run vertical to the floor or ceiling!!!

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jsieg

1] More energy efficient. (heat loss/ heat gain)

2] Dryer (When designed & installed properly)

They are designed to divert water away from the foundation! Not to keep the water out!

3] Studies are showing that they retain their value better then block & poured foundations.
4] Cost less to finish the basement as living space.
5] construction time can be cut by up to a week or more!

6] They can be installed where traditional basements can not!

They have been installed below the water table in many areas and are still dry!

On the Down Side
1] You must hire a proper engineer to design the foundation.

2] The installer must be watched during the entire installation process.

Most do not understand that they are designed to divert the water rather then to push back the water like traditional basements.

I have seen many inspected three One was great two where disasters .
If I had two homes the same one wood and one Block or Concrete.
And the wood was $100,000:00 and the others where $50,000:00 more I would not take the wood .
Future sales and future concerns would make me stay away




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Roy Cooke

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

Roy,

That is why I am having this training course here. The instructor is one of the people who have written the 125 pages of code that will be added to the next update of the code books. The current code refers to a document that tells you nothing about how to design or construct a PWF. It only tells you that a PWF is made from wood.

They are growing in popularity... Their are more in Canada then here in the states. Alaska, I have been told, have a lot of them also. Due to the short construction season when it comes to concrete curring time.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jsieg

Roy,

That is why I am having this training course here. The instructor is one of the people who have written the 125 pages of code that will be added to the next update of the code books. The current code refers to a document that tells you nothing about how to design or construct a PWF. It only tells you that a PWF is made from wood.

They are growing in popularity... Their are more in Canada then here in the states. Alaska, I have been told, have a lot of them also. Due to the short construction season when it comes to concrete curring time.

I am impressed with this chapter and would highly recommend all Canadian NACHI members ( especially those west of Toronto think about going to some of their Courses . A lot cheaper and better courses then are being offered but the other Ontario Association . Roy Cooke

[wforsyth]

I was going to refer them to you Jason! After we talked the other day I was very excited that you were having the training event on these. I think there are alot of misconceptions out there about wood foundations and how dry and efficient they can be.

[rwand1]

How can a product that has a limited life span be better than concrete? That is the question. Be it far knobler to build with concrete than a house that a Wolf maybe able to huff and blow down.

Eventually these foundations will have to be replaced with concrete foundations.

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

Originally Posted by rwand1

How can a product that has a limited life span be better than concrete? That is the question. Be it far knobler to build with concrete than a house that a Wolf maybe able to huff and blow down.

Eventually these foundations will have to be replaced with concrete foundations.

I have seen many houses made of wood that are over 100 years old.

I see a lot of concrete roads, driveways, patios and a lot of other concrete things that do not even last 5-10 years.

Why would you replace a wood basement with a concrete one?

The rest of the house would be in the same or worse condition then the basement due to all the additional forces the house structure has to deal with... Wind, Rain, Snow, Ice, things falling against them, etc. The basement when designed properly & installed properly only has to cope with the weight of the earth against it. It will not need to deal with water because the water is being diverted away from the structure before it becomes a concern.

Until you have had a chance to learn about how the system is designed and how the system works, it is hard to understand it's benefits!

[rwand1]

Well if wood foundations were boats they'da sunk long ago. Some of the ones I have inspected had water infiltration problems. The fact is the wood only lasts so long as the chemicals which inhibit decay.

As to insurance I found out today some insurers will insure but its difficult process.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jsieg

I have seen many houses made of wood that are over 100 years old.

I see a lot of concrete roads, driveways, patios and a lot of other concrete things that do not even last 5-10 years.

Why would you replace a wood basement with a concrete one?

The rest of the house would be in the same or worse condition then the basement due to all the additional forces the house structure has to deal with... Wind, Rain, Snow, Ice, things falling against them, etc. The basement when designed properly & installed properly only has to cope with the weight of the earth against it. It will not need to deal with water because the water is being diverted away from the structure before it becomes a concern.

Until you have had a chance to learn about how the system is designed and how the system works, it is hard to understand it's benefits!

Yes but the perceived concern that John Q public has makes them a liability.

The same thing goes with (UFFI) The perceived concern that John Q Public has makes it a liability.

Roy Cooke

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

Originally Posted by rcooke

Yes but the perceived concern that John Q public has makes them a liability.

The same thing goes with (UFFI) The perceived concern that John Q Public has makes it a liability.

Roy Cooke

I Agree.

This is something that the public will need to be re-educated about.

Originally Posted by rwand1

Some of the ones I have inspected had water infiltration problems. The fact is the wood only lasts so long as the chemicals which inhibit decay.

The same goes for concrete.

Originally Posted by rwand1

As to insurance I found out today some insurers will insure but its difficult process.

This is something that I think will change once the new code for PWF's is addopted across the US and also in Canada. I would think that the insurance companies would insure if the home was built after a specific date. (The date the code is addopted.)

I hope I wrote that well enough or at least everyone understands what I am trying to say.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jsieg

I Agree.

This is something that the public will need to be re-educated about.


The same goes for concrete.


This is something that I think will change once the new code for PWF's is addopted across the US and also in Canada. I would think that the insurance companies would insure if the home was built after a specific date. (The date the code is addopted.)

I hope I wrote that well enough or at least everyone understands what I am trying to say.

Great thanks Jason Much appreciated .
Roy Cooke

[Claude Lawrenson]

In my teaching of first nation inspectors, particularly in northern regions of Canada, I also discovered that many new homes on reserve are PTW. Reasons such as lack of concrete resources, limitation of construction period and cost are major influences. In addition, the use of ICF - insulated concrete forms are also increasing - where concrete is available or can be readily site mixed.

[Vern Mitchinson, CMI]

Fortunately I do not get very many wood foundations in this area. The ones I have inspected all have had water infiltration problems with severe mould problems. One in puctular was condemned by the health board and ordered the occupants to vacate immediately. The family was forbidden to take anything with them. They are now living in a motel. This house will be burned as the toxic moulds are too severe for anyone to enter safely and fix it. It was built in 1976.
The pressure treated wood foundation association has not answered any of my queries. They have not even acknowledged receiving my inquiries.
The city of Edmonton does not allow concrete block foundations and I wish they would add PTW foundations to the unacceptable list.
A number of posts talk about how wonderful PWT's are but my experience says otherwise.

The manufacturers of this product have not replied to my requests for information where as the portland concrete association has always provided all the information I have ever asked for.

On one PWT foundation the bank would only provide a 15 year mortgage because the PWT was guaranteed for 40 years and was 25 years old.

For more information on a previous discussion go to
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthrea...od+foundations