That which is visible is mold

[msylvester]

James
I too use one of my states top IH who only specializes in mold cases. He's not cheap but worth every dime. I learn so much every time we work together. I am looking into getting my building science degree to go along with my minor in micro biology.

We can only hope that independent studies will determine the true affect of mold. We can't depend on the Gov. to educate us.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

So True.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Originally Posted by bboerner

James -- Look at post #82 then take a look at this link...

http://www.njmoldinspection.com/unde..._mycology.html

Let me know what you think after reading it. Certified Medical Mycologist do mold inspections/anaylisis at private residences. Just because someone is a industrial hygenist doesn't make them a mold expert unless they specialize in it. A Certified Medical Mycologist actually has a degree in fungi which does make them the expert IMO.

Bill

I bet there is not a Mycologist in my area that will go to the site. I am not disagreeing that a Mycologist maybe be better than an Industrial Hygienist when it comes to mold. But our Mycologist in my area do not step out of the lab. Like I said repeatedly before Industrial Hygienist's initial training in mold is very limited.
I noticed on the Mycologist website that he is a member of the AIHA.

[Dennis R. Goudreau]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Dennis a Certified Medical Mycologist is trained in BUILDING SCIENCE. We are not trained to properly test mold. Keep in mind I didn't say inspect for it I said test. Your right, it's our job to know as much as we can when it comes to building science. It's our job to locate moisture intrusion. However if you test mold it can be bad news if you give a false reading. I highly recommend staying away from testing Mold so does a friend of mine who's a master at building science. He's built homes for over 30 yrs before jumping over to the HI career field. Read up on the link I posted.

Bill

Bill
there are people on this MB who are trained in building science,myself being one them and I will continue with educating myself in this field as I'm able to do so, that being said maybe I'm reading what you wrote wrong, but hopefully no one here is testing mold submitting swabs,tapes, etc to a lab is the proper protocol, air sampling as remediation goes on is also proper, (I should not say protocol)the point being this is not for everyone and if you are going to do it please get the proper education.

[Mark Jones]

Wow! I just finished reading all these post. I've been considering doing mold testing but know I remember why I don't want anything to do with it. It seems that there are no standards. No one agrees on anything. My IH. is the top guy in the country yours is a putz. Sampling tells you everything you need to know, sampling tells you nothing. How much does your lab test/ that's not a real test. How many samples did you take, thats not enough. How do you spell mould/ mold? WTF.

As a Home Inspector when I see something that looks like mold I tell my client, See that, it looks like mold to me. Then I tell them what causes mold. Spores, food, temp, moister. Then I tell 'em how to control moister, if it's a small area I tell 'em the EPA website has recommendations on cleaning it up yourself with some bleach and water. If it's a large area I tell 'em they may want to hire someone to do it. As for testing I give them the name of a NACHI guy in the area and tell them that some people prefer Industrial Hygienist do the testing.

In my report I say that it appeared to be mold, but testing is the only way to know for sure. (But I'm not even convinced that testing is 100% accurate)

Reading all these post was painful, It reminds me of dealing with Lawyers and Insurance companies. For every answer, someone says it's wrong because the right way to do it is blah, blah, blah
</IMG>

[msylvester]

Welcome to the Romper Room Mark. If there is one thing about this board are that many get message board muscle and think they know all.

By the way why is your website copyrighted for 2003 when you weren't even licensed back then?

[Dennis R. Goudreau]

Originally Posted by msylvester

Welcome to the Romper Room Mark. If there is one thing about this board are that many get message board muscle and think they know all.

By the way why is your website copyrighted for 2003 when you weren't even licensed back then?

where is the magic mirror

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Ben,

Help me understand.

The redactions in that document appear to be the names of certain individuals and locations.

Oh Sh*t, I'm sorry. It's the top of page 31. Those numbers mean nothing now.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Oh Sh*t, I'm sorry. It's the top of page 31. Those numbers mean nothing now.

Yes the chart is on 31(I knew that) but please clearly explain why the numbers in that chart mean nothing now.

I would really like to know.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Yes the chart is on 31(I knew that) but please clearly explain why the numbers in that chart mean nothing now.

I would really like to know.

There are no TLVs. One can not give any direct relation to number of mold spores to adverse health effects. Different things affect different people differently. There have been numbers and charts and data printed in the past by expert groups such as ACGIH that have been retracted. Kenton borrowed my books on IAQ, but that is just a basic fact. If you see mold numbers and health effects, be cautious. Now, EPA's Moldiness is a little different, but that's a different course. And NACHI.TV is working with National Jewish Hospital in Denver on a certification course about Moldiness and carpet sampling for InterNACHI members.

I'm reminded of the small (less than 10 sq.ft.), medium (10-100 sq.ft.), and large (greater than 100 sq.ft.) categories of mold contamination described by NY and EPA and others. A "small" amount of mold can cause serious health effects (a microscopic amount). There doesn't have to be 125.5 sq.ft. of mold to be a major problem.

In short, there are no threshold limit values for mold and health effects. And there never will be.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

There are no TLVs. One can not give any direct relation to number of mold spores to adverse health effects. Different things affect different people differently. There have been numbers and charts and data to printed by others such as ACGIH that have been retracted. Kenton borrowed my books on IAQ, but that is just a basic fact. If you see mold numbers and health effects, be cautious. Now, EPA's Moldiness is a little different, but that's a different course.

That's what I have always thought.

I got confused by your "redacted" and "not valid" comments.

IMHO it's inappropriate for HIs to advice clients with regard to health affects of mold. Too many variables.

That's the territory of Doctors and specifically allergists.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

That's what I have always thought.

I got confused by your "redacted" and "not valid" comments.

IMHO it's inappropriate for HIs to advice clients with regard to health affects of mold. Too many variables.

That's the territory of Doctors and specifically allergists.

Yeah. I used the incorrect word - I didn't mean "redacted." I meant "retracted." (You can't imagine how much I need a dictionary and thesarus.)

Your comments are right on the money. This health issue is a huge section in the upcoming Mold Training Online Video Course at nachi.tv. We go over all that with Dr. Shane.

[dbucknavich]

Originally Posted by mjones6

Wow! I just finished reading all these post. I've been considering doing mold testing but know I remember why I don't want anything to do with it. It seems that there are no standards. No one agrees on anything. My IH. is the top guy in the country yours is a putz. Sampling tells you everything you need to know, sampling tells you nothing. How much does your lab test/ that's not a real test. How many samples did you take, thats not enough. How do you spell mould/ mold? WTF.

As a Home Inspector when I see something that looks like mold I tell my client, See that, it looks like mold to me. Then I tell them what causes mold. Spores, food, temp, moister. Then I tell 'em how to control moister, if it's a small area I tell 'em the EPA website has recommendations on cleaning it up yourself with some bleach and water. If it's a large area I tell 'em they may want to hire someone to do it. As for testing I give them the name of a NACHI guy in the area and tell them that some people prefer Industrial Hygienist do the testing.

In my report I say that it appeared to be mold, but testing is the only way to know for sure. (But I'm not even convinced that testing is 100% accurate)

Reading all these post was painful, It reminds me of dealing with Lawyers and Insurance companies. For every answer, someone says it's wrong because the right way to do it is blah, blah, blah
</IMG>

Good post. You are right on about many things. There are a ton of opinions and ideas. In my opinion, an important thing you must do when performing mold inspections and mold sampling is realize how much you know. But more important than that, is to realize how much you don't know. There is liability whether you test or don't test, so arm yourself with as much as you can and use it correctly.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Mold Mold Mold Mold
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