Commercial Electrical Inspections

[jtedesco1]

The inspector should be aware of the hazards associated with electricity and the requirements for PPE.

Here's some information to be considered.

For those who are planning on using a SME Consultant, and where others will remove equipment covers, or open electrical cabinets during inspections while energized, you may find it useful to attend one of the seminars offered that covers electrical safety in the workplace.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

The inspector should be aware of the hazards associated with electricity and the requirements for PPE.

Joe,

This is the reason I pay a licensed industrial electrician to perform any wild inspections on any commercial switch gear equipment when needed, if you're not qualified to do it yourself, for gods sake don't....!!!!

Good point Joe!

Have a great Christmas and New Year.....!!!

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by dduffy

Joe,

This is the reason I pay a licensed industrial electrician to perform any wild inspections on any commercial switch gear equipment when needed, if you're not qualified to do it yourself, for gods sake don't....!!!!

Good point Joe!

Have a great Christmas and New Year.....!!!

Here's were I was coming from:

"E2018-01

8.4.7

Electrical:

8.4.7.1 Observations—Identify the electrical service provided
and observe the electrical distribution system including
distribution panels, transformers, meters, emergency generators,
general lighting systems, and other such equipment or
systems. Observe general electrical items, such as distribution
panels, type of wiring, energy management systems, emergency
power, lighting protection, etc. Identify any observed or
reported special or unusual electrical equipment, systems, or
devices at the subject property.

8.4.7.2 Out of Scope Issues—Removing of electrical panel
and device covers, except if removed by building staff, EMF
issues, electrical testing, or operating of any electrical devices,
or opining on process related equipment or tenant owned

equipment."

[Dale Duffy]

Yep, I understand that Joe.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by dduffy

Yep, I understand that Joe.

Thank you Dale, and here's to a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

OK, talking commercial only here based upon the ASTM material.

Question: What voltages will we find in a commercial apartment, store, mall, restaurant, or office building, etc?

I understood a previous comment indicating that voltages greater than 240 volts would not be encountered by the commercial inspector?

This may be true for small commercial occupancies. but the following will be found in many of the types of commercial occupancies that will be inspected by a commercial inspector.

They include electrical and separately derived systems, services, branch circuit and feeders that will be operating at nominal system voltages of 120, 120/240, 208Y/120, 240, 347, 480Y/277, and 480.

Each Y service is 3 phase, 4 wire and if the commercial inspector is making the inspection and notes the conditions associated with the electrical inspection, there will be equipment that will operate at these voltages, why even the wall switches in some of the hotel meeting rooms will be supplying 277 volt fixtures, for example.

I also wanted to ask if the word home in an inspector's title is confusing to some since the last red box I received from this person someone recently stated:


"Keep your posts home inspector related."

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Thank you Dale, and here's to a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Your welcome Joe..!

I understood a previous comment indicating that voltages greater than 240 volts would not be encountered by the commercial inspector?

Somebody is slightly confused.....

This may be true for small commercial occupancies. but the following will be found in many of the types of commercial occupancies that will be inspected by a commercial inspector.

Indeed they will be present.

They include electrical and separately derived systems, services, branch circuit and feeders that will be operating at nominal system voltages of 120, 120/240, 208Y/120, 240, 347, 480Y/277, and 480.

Exactly, I see these services every week.

Each Y service is 3 phase, 4 wire and if the commercial inspector is making the inspection and notes the conditions associated with the electrical inspection, there will be equipment that will operate at these voltages, why even the wall switches in some of the hotel meeting rooms will be supplying 277 volt fixtures, for example.

Yep...correct-amondo.......

[Dale Duffy]

There is no reason to even touch any switch gear, distribution panels of course, since I am not performing work on any equipment I stay the heck away from it.

I'm certainly not qualified to perform any type of electrical work, besides wiring my own room additions etc, with Paul Abernathy on the phone..........

This is as close as I get besides documenting the amperage and voltage clearly written on the tags..!!......

Amazing just about every inspection I do, there is crap piled against the equipment always.

[cbottger]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Thank you Dale, and here's to a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

OK, talking commercial only here based upon the ASTM material.

Question: What voltages will we find in a commercial apartment, store, mall, restaurant, or office building, etc?

I understood a previous comment indicating that voltages greater than 240 volts would not be encountered by the commercial inspector?

This may be true for small commercial occupancies. but the following will be found in many of the types of commercial occupancies that will be inspected by a commercial inspector.

They include electrical and separately derived systems, services, branch circuit and feeders that will be operating at nominal system voltages of 120, 120/240, 208Y/120, 240, 347, 480Y/277, and 480.

Each Y service is 3 phase, 4 wire and if the commercial inspector is making the inspection and notes the conditions associated with the electrical inspection, there will be equipment that will operate at these voltages, why even the wall switches in some of the hotel meeting rooms will be supplying 277 volt fixtures, for example.

I also wanted to ask if the word home in an inspector's title is confusing to some since the last red box I received from this person someone recently stated:


"Keep your posts home inspector related."

Joe I have spent a large % of my career working in the industrial field with voltage ranging from 440 600 & 1240 volt AC equipment and any time you get above 240 volt with the average HI you are disturbing their comfort zone.

To many working in this field of inspecting have not grasped the concept of expanding their overall base knowledge level whether it be electrical, mechanical or structural and just strike out at anyone wanting to go above and beyond the status quo. I for one appreciate any type of information you desire to post keep up the good work.

Charley B.

[jtedesco1]

Thanks guys, here's what we find in the downtown area of Boston:



Accessibility, working space, etc., is often not acceptable.

Do you also verify that the equipment directories are accurate?

[jtedesco1]

These systems are identified in the ATSM code.

How far into them will the commercial inspector go?

For example, will the information technology rooms be inspected, especially under the raised floors, and will they special requirement for disconnecting the equipment be check?

• Distribution panels
• Transformers
• Meters
• Emergency generators
• General lighting systems
• Type of wiring
• Energy management systems
• Emergency power
• Lighting protection, etc.
• Identify any observed or reported special or unusual electrical equipment, systems, or devices at the subject property

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

These systems are identified in the ATSM code.

How far into them will the commercial inspector go?

For example, will the information technology rooms be inspected, especially under the raised floors, and will they special requirement for disconnecting the equipment be check?

• Distribution panels
• Transformers
• Meters
• Emergency generators
• General lighting systems
• Type of wiring
• Energy management systems
• Emergency power
• Lighting protection, etc.
• Identify any observed or reported special or unusual electrical equipment, systems, or devices at the subject property

Hi Joe,

I will have my licensed industrial electrician go as far as my client wants to pay me for.

Every customer has different requirements and expectations regarding what they want inspected, and to what degree.

So the ASTM standards mean nothing more than a baseline for an inspection, the client is the one who decides what they want done.

I have never met a commercial building investor/buyer that did not know exactly what they wanted inspected, and to what degree, their very intelligent people who do their homework before they buy anything.

Due Diligence is the most important factor before any purchase, and I charge according to what degree they would like to take the inspection level.

[jtedesco1]

Thank you Dale, let's say I am the owner of a property in downtown anywhere in the USA, and I give you the full responsibility to INSPECT each and every part of my buildings electrical system, not lookng for the observation type, but the actual inspection of all electrical systems starting from the roof down to the basements, if any.

I want to discuss these items, and with some input by others, hope to create some understanding of the inspection process instead, of the observation process.

[jtedesco1]

PS: Did they mean: Lightning Protection instead of "lighting protection"

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Thank you Dale, let's say I am the owner of a property in downtown anywhere in the USA, and I give you the full responsibility to INSPECT each and every part of my buildings electrical system, not lookng for the observation type, but the actual inspection of all electrical systems starting from the roof down to the basements, if any.

I want to discuss these items, and with some input by others, hope to create some understanding of the inspection process instead, of the observation process.

Hi Joe,

My company just does inspections, no destructive testing, no load cal's, etc, zero, zilch, none, just visual inspections.

My electrician has to many inspections too do with me, but I can recommend a licensed electrical engineer to any client who does work by the hour, we do all our inspections by the job.

I have never had a client want to pay for an electrical engineer unless they plan on doing extensive renovations, then I just give the client his name and move on.

Kind of like Phase 1 environmental engineers, I recommend the company who does them for me if needed, but anything out of the scope of what the client wants to pay me for, I have them contact other people who can also help them with things I don't do.

[Joe Farsetta]

Joe,

You and I both know that to inspect (not merely examine) EVERY electrical component in an commercial or industrial setting could take weeks. That doesnt include mapping out all components.

You are reading to far into the ASTM standard. Remember, the standard includes much, but ultimately it is up to the client and inspector to determine what is examined. It is refered to as "risk tolerance level" on the clients part, and is directly tied to his/her pocketbook.

Dale is correct in his assertion that the depth of investigation is tied to the talent needed to perform the task, and the $$ required to perform to that level.

ASTM also clearly states that, sometimes, the time it takes to investigate and the $$ invested, aint worth it.