www.FireDoorInspector.org

[Nick Gromicko]

www.FireDoorInspector.org

[W. Michael Chris]

When?
Couldn't find date . . . cost . . . etc.

[Nick Gromicko]

Setting up a few dates now. The fire marshall and door manufacturers who helped us develop the course want all their people to go through it first at the end of January.

[James H. Bushart]

This is insane.

While fire marshalls and other city inspectors are held blameless by law and cannot be sued for issues relating to areas and items they inspect, you actually have provided a sticker for the unfortunate firedoor inspector to leave behind so that the plaintiff's attorney can find him more easily.

We "mere home inspectors" just shake our heads wondering where you will be taking your association, next....

[Nick Gromicko]

We cannot find any case involving anyone who has inspected a firedoor. You would need the product of several unlikely events for that to happen: A fire, a fire door in the fire, a fire door that wasn't working properly at the time of the fire, a fire door in a fire that wasn't working properly at the time of the fire but that was inspected, a fire door in a fire that wasn't working properly at the time of the fire but that was inspected by someone who said it was working fine, damages (life or property) caused by a fire door in a fire that wasn't working properly at the time of the fire but that was inspected by someone who said it was working fine, damages (life or property) caused by a fire door in a fire that wasn't working properly at the time of the fire but that was inspected by someone who said it was working fine where those damages can be attributed to the inspection.... or in other words... very unlikely. Which is why we can't find any incidents of it ocurring.

What does happen regularly, is that AHJs are discovering that most fire doors are NEVER inspected.

NOT inspecting kills.

Which is why everyone is now requiring inspections of all 200 million fire doors in the U.S. Every door, every year. This market is many times larger than the residential real estate inspection market... it involves less liability... and performing them is within our realm of competence.

AHJs, city inspectors, and fire marshalls won't do them. They only want to confirm that they were done.

The fact that government employees are typically held personally blameless is a moot point Jim. They are held blameless for almost everything they do in the course of their jobs. This point you make is nothing new and is irrelavant.

www.nachi.org/comsop.htm

[Peter C. Russell]

I think more good will come from these inspections than not.

James, you are loosing your credibility with every post.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by prussell

I think more good will come from these inspections than not.

James, you are loosing your credibility with every post.

Peter....do you think that Wendy (or whatever number of NACHI members her level of skills represents) should be inspecting chimneys and firedoors after a short one-day session?

There is a reason that those of us who inspect for various governments are indemnified.

The answer to making money during these hard times is not to incorporate brain surgery and space shuttle launches under the scope of a home inspection.

This type of activity is insanely dangerous.....to the public as well as to the inspector.

[Nick Gromicko]

Jim writes:

after a short one-day session

Jim, we had fire door manufacturers, technicians, fire marshalls, etc all trying to extend and expand our Commercial Fire Door Inspection Course out so as to fill a full 8 hours... but we couldn't. It just isn't that difficult of an inspection to perform, once you know how.

Jim writes

The answer to making money during these hard times is not to incorporate brain surgery and space shuttle launches under the scope of a home inspection.

First, it is not "incorporated into the scope of a home inspection."

Second, it isn't "brain surgery" or "space shuttle launching." Read my comment about how difficult it was to stretch it into a 1-day course. It is actually quite a simple inspection to perform.

Fear not.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Peter....do you think that Wendy (or whatever number of NACHI members her level of skills represents) should be inspecting chimneys and firedoors after a short one-day session?

There is a reason that those of us who inspect for various governments are indemnified.

The answer to making money during these hard times is not to incorporate brain surgery and space shuttle launches under the scope of a home inspection.

This type of activity is insanely dangerous.....to the public as well as to the inspector.

Jim,

Why do you even mention your old heart throb?

Do you really think there is much to inspecting a fire door? Be honest now.

I will reserve my opinion of the new NACHI course.

I think some credibility would be helpful.

Perhaps having the inspection protocol accepted by some authority or insurance carrier.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Which is why everyone is now requiring inspections of all 200 million fire doors in the U.S. Every door, every year.

I happen to think this is a good thing, but I am very curious as to who "everyone" is. I did a Google search, and I can't find anyone except Factory Mutual.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Peter....do you think that Wendy (or whatever number of NACHI members her level of skills represents) should be inspecting chimneys and firedoors after a short one-day session?

There is a reason that those of us who inspect for various governments are indemnified.

The answer to making money during these hard times is not to incorporate brain surgery and space shuttle launches under the scope of a home inspection.

This type of activity is insanely dangerous.....to the public as well as to the inspector.

Jim, I think your p*ssed at Nick so your going to attack him every chance you get. I think that continuing education is just that, Continuing!!!! It's not Nicks job to qualify inspectors but to help with their continuing education. Just as you have stated in the past, just because a doctor has a license it doesn't nesacarily make them qualified to operate on you, but with that said, there are many doctors that are. Same with home inspectors or contractors, some will never have enough education to be qualified while others, like myself truly benefit from it.

I also agree with Mike, some accreditation would be beneficial.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

NFPA 80 Compliance Standards

Fire Door, Frames, Hardware, Closers, Exit Device
New Fire Code Requirements-NFPA 80 Compliance

NFPA 80, Standard for Fire Doors and Other Opening Protectives – 2007 edition, requires documented inspections of fire-rated door assemblies on an annual basis. NFPA 80 requires these inspections to be performed by persons who are knowledgeable of the types of door assemblies being inspected. Swinging doors with builders hardware are the most common type of fire door assembly, and are among the most complex due to the myriad of materials and products that are used to create them. These assemblies often provide accessibility, security and life-safety functions in addition to their fire-safety protection, also increasing their complexity. Inspectors must thoroughly understand the dynamics of these assemblies in order to correctly evaluate them in the field.

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/coffee-break/hc-2007-0828.pdf


Every 19 seconds, a fire department responds to a fire somewhere in the nation. A properly functioning fire door assembly can mean the difference between life and death.

Inspecting Fire Doors is formulated as a service to building owners in order to ensure that the building is up to code and that it meets the requirements of NFPA 80, which now requires annual inspections and reports for fire rated door assemblies. Expertise in this industry stems from many years of installing fire door assemblies, continued education of the subject, familiarities with many different type of openings and fire rated doors of all kinds.

It could consist of 1-4 hour doors from swinging, sliding, and roll-up doors of various designs.

Annual Inspections



Inspectors must verify that doors and hardware are in working order with no visible signs of damage. Doors and assemblies will be checked for missing or broken parts and for field modifications or auxiliary hardware which may interfere or prohibit operation. Inspectors must also verify that self-closing devices and latching hardware are operational and confirm the presence and integrity of gasketing and edge seals where required.

NFPA 80 does not identify a specific group to perform these annual inspections, qualified individuals will need to have broad product application knowledge and understanding of fire rated doors assemblies. Such individuals most likely will have five years of industry experience, and/or equivalent education of the subject.

Now, who is ready for this Inspection?
Please go to the next room and check out the Inachi Continued Education on Fire Door Inspections.

Marcel

[Peter C. Russell]

Hi Marcel, Good info. thanks. I have installed 1000s of doors in my career which spans 24 years and think that Nicks course would be beneficial. I hope to go to Colorado and take both courses.

[James H. Bushart]

One day in a NACHI Tv studio hardly equates to five years of education.

If people are being told that this one day course qualifies them to inspect firedoors, it is inconsistent with what Marcel has just published.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by prussell

Hi Marcel, Good info. thanks. I have installed 1000s of doors in my career which spans 24 years and think that Nicks course would be beneficial. I hope to go to Colorado and take both courses.

Lets go down with your bike and rent one of those side cars so I can bumb a ride. Never to old to learn something, Eh.?