www.FireDoorInspector.org

[Keith Runquist]

Wow, I never thought I'd be happy that South Dakota was a blue state!

[Wilfred O. Hellner]

I work in a healthcare facility as a Director, and let me tell you, we have our Maintenance staff them on a Quartely basis. Yes it is correct starting this year all Fire Doors have to be inspected on a yearly basis for the AHJ to look at when they come into your building. This is a great oppertunity for all of us to add to our services.

[Marc D. Shunk]

I wonder if these fire door inspections are going to require the inspector to operate the fire alarm system to confirm that the hold open devices release?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I wonder if these fire door inspections are going to require the inspector to operate the fire alarm system to confirm that the hold open devices release?

I agree Mark, it is all Builders hardware associated with Fire Doors.
I don't think some realize all the Hardware knowledge that is required to confirm that a Fire Door is functioning properly or will perform like it was intended to.
There are hundreds of different type of Fire door Manufacturers and unbelievable descriptions of Builders Hardware that make them all function to meet the NFPA requirements.

I would hope that this course is intended as Continued Education.

Marcel

[Marcel R. Cyr]

This link may help some.

http://www.dhi.org/shared/forms/PDFf...AIBrochure.pdf

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Talk to people already in the bussiness of inspecting Fire Doors. See what the requirements are.

http://www.fdis1.com/

[Wilfred O. Hellner]

The answer is NO you do not have to activate the fire alarm system to do these inspections.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Section 5.2.6 of the NFPA says different.

http://fm.colorado.edu/firesafety/do...enance2007.pdf

[Chris McDonald]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Section 5.2.6 of the NFPA says different.

http://fm.colorado.edu/firesafety/do...enance2007.pdf

Marcel, I respectfully disagree.
Looking at the standards of practice established for fire door inspections:

16.5 Limitations

It is not the purpose of this standard to establish inspection procedures to determine the fire rating or the degree of protection provided by a fire door or surrounding wall, determine the need for a fire door in any particular location, determine proper placement of detectors, determine the functionality of fire detection systems, heat test fusible links, determine the combustibility of floor coverings extending through doorways, inspect accordion, folding, hoistway, elevator, chute, access, or dumbwaiter doors, inspect fire windows, or inspect fabric fire safety curtains.

IMO, activating the fire alarm system to test fire doors goes beyond (most) of our knowledge and expertise. A fire alarm company is most likely testing these devices when they conduct their inspections of the system. Verify it through documentation. If it isn't documented, advise your client that they need to have this done by a qualified fire alarm testing company, or (even if it has previously been done and this is for a commercial real estate transaction) suggest that they have it done by an independent, qualified fire alarm testing company to verify the previous vendors findings. IMO, our role in regards to the functional testing of fire doors is essentially to verify the operation of the fire door(s) once released from the door holding mechanism, resetting the fire door(s) back into the ready state, and documenting the findings.

Just my 2 cents.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by cmcdonald

Marcel, I respectfully disagree.
Looking at the standards of practice established for fire door inspections:

16.5 Limitations

It is not the purpose of this standard to establish inspection procedures to determine the fire rating or the degree of protection provided by a fire door or surrounding wall, determine the need for a fire door in any particular location, determine proper placement of detectors, determine the functionality of fire detection systems, heat test fusible links, determine the combustibility of floor coverings extending through doorways, inspect accordion, folding, hoistway, elevator, chute, access, or dumbwaiter doors, inspect fire windows, or inspect fabric fire safety curtains.

IMO, activating the fire alarm system to test fire doors goes beyond (most) of our knowledge and expertise. A fire alarm company is most likely testing these devices when they conduct their inspections of the system. Verify it through documentation. If it isn't documented, advise your client that they need to have this done by a qualified fire alarm testing company, or (even if it has previously been done and this is for a commercial real estate transaction) suggest that they have it done by an independent, qualified fire alarm testing company to verify the previous vendors findings. IMO, our role in regards to the functional testing of fire doors is essentially to verify the operation of the fire door(s) once released from the door holding mechanism, resetting the fire door(s) back into the ready state, and documenting the findings.

Just my 2 cents.

Chris you are probably right, the intent of the code is to verify the the hold opens release on activation of the alarm, but that would be covered under the fire alarm testing of the Building as you state.

The key word here would be like you mention, a documentation of those test should become part of the Fire Door Inspections.

Thanks, Marcel

[Marc D. Shunk]

Help me make sense of this... will the fire door inspector inspect the entire door, but not the functionality of the hold open device? Without operating the alarm, how does the inspector confirm that the hold open device releases? Seems like a shame to have a fully inspected fire door that possibly won't shut when called into service. I guess it's like you say, you're going to count on the alarm guys to confirm that.

[Darren Spencer]

When is this to go into action...you would think training would have been held last year in time for the inspector need to be there.

What is the referance of State code that will be used?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Well, mabe we should all look at this picture and start inspections.
This appears to be a classroom setting in a Commercial setting with a pair of doors equipped with panic devices and surface mounted vertical rod devices.
Equal to or similar to P700 series by Sargent.

It would be assummed that since these open up in a corridor in a public building, that these are 1-hour rated doors.
It looks like they have attached hardware on the bottom to manually hold the doors open.

I blew up the picture and there is no floor surface mounted strike, nor recessed floor strike for the bottom chasis of the vertical rod device. Hmmmmmmmm

Wonder why?

[Marc D. Shunk]

I know a lot of the old warehouses have "fire doors" that are more like tin covered barn doors mounted on a sloping horizontal track. You can roll the doors open and shut, since they are counterbalanced by a stack of weights hung from a chain around a couple pullies. In the middle of the chain is a fusible link of some sort of lead alloy. When that link melts, the door comes racing down the track to slam shut. I'd hate to be in the way when that happens. You'd get hurt pretty badly. The tests of those doors are sometimes destructive. I've seen pieces fall off the door, or the door totally blast the stop blocks/hooks off the wall.

[Wayne B. Wilson]

We used discount the fire link let close with the counter weight, The magnect device was energized to see if it closed , Panic bars 9 newtons If i remember right Aprox 2 to 3 lbs