Should I add Life-Safety section to my Commerical Report?

[RAY THOROMAN]

All Commercial Guru's

I am now using the InterNACHI comsop and inspecting to its standards.

With that being said, I currently am using HG software and do not have a section for Life-Safety.

Should I add this section to my inspection report software and how specfic should I be (NACHI comsop section has A-Z)

Sorry if I am not being specfic enough.

[Nick Gromicko]

HG (HomeGauge) is great software for home inspectors, arguably the best... But... it is absolutely the worst (in terms of liability increased) for doing commercial inspections.

Never use HG for commercial inspections.

[RAY THOROMAN]

Thanks for the PM's, calls, and emails guys on this subject.

I may go a different direction on the commercial sop....

Nick please expand on your thoughts as to why not use HG for commercial reports and what do you or others recommend for commercial reporting software.

RT

[Nick Gromicko]

HG uses an inferior commercial SOP which constitutes nothing short of negligence on the part of any inspector who uses it, unless of course you dump the entire www.nachi.org/comsop.htm into your scope of work agreement.

Russell is supposed to release a best practices (InterNACHI) version next month. Hang in there because otherwise HG is one of the best, if not the best, in home inspection reporting software. If he doesn't, I will. As you know we are quite technically capable of producing our own reporting software and giving it away to members for free, which would all but destroy the inspection software industry. We already have http://www.nachi.org/onlineagreement.htm and http://www.nachi.org/fetchreportfriendlyseal.htm and of course we deliver all the state approved commercial courses. We've resisted this impulse for years in hopes that inspection software vendors would keep up. Let's give them a month of breathing room to see if they can before we do anything drastic.

We're going to make the owners of the first reporting software company that goes www.nachi.org/comsop.htm.... very wealthy. I just hope those owners aren't me and Chris Morrell.

[Russell Spriggs]

Originally Posted by gromicko

As you know we are quite technically capable of producing our own reporting software and giving it away to members for free, which would all but destroy the inspection software industry.

Uhh, yep . . .

We're going to make the owners of the first reporting software company that goes www.nachi.org/comsop.htm.... very wealthy. I just hope those owners aren't me and Chris Morrell.

Looks like the gauntlet has been thrown down . . .

Looks like we're getting serious on this comm'l stuff - Yay!

[RAY THOROMAN]

Hey Nick,

Could I not do like you said and ''dump'' the internachi comsop into my HG software and create a fully compliant report?

Given it will take several hours to do and then build the comment list, but it is possible.

I like the idea of free internachi reporting software, how long would it take to complete this project?

I'm gonna hop over into this other thread about adding the cooking area section and give my 2 cents on that addition.

RT

[Russell Spriggs]

Hey, Ray-
I just had to say "Hi" as a former Dawsonville / Cumming resident . . .!

[RAY THOROMAN]

Hey Russ,

Gotta love this part of GA, especially in the foot hills.

I used to live in Dahlonega, now we live near Dawsonville in Hall county.

What brought you out to Idaho?


How's the commercial inspection biz or what's the bulk consist of over that way?

[Gary T. Heller]

I have created a Life Safety Template using HG software. I will be glad to share. In it, I reference all NFPA and OSHA standards to back up the findings.

[Nick Gromicko]

Good idea creating a life safety template. It is unconcievable that we, as commercial inspectors, could disclaim it completely. However delete all references to NFPA or OSHA for fear that either your template falls short of those standards or your actual inspection falls short. Never give the plaintiff's attorney a way to argue that you implied your inspection was a full NFPA or OSHA inspection. Stay on the ranch: www.nachi.org/comsop.htm and live to inspect another day.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by gromicko

HG (HomeGauge) is great software for home inspectors, arguably the best... But... it is absolutely the worst (in terms of liability increased) for doing commercial inspections.

Never use HG for commercial inspections.

It's very obvious you don't have a clue what your talking about, HomeGauge can be edited to meet any inspection type, and I don't care if your inspecting Doghouses or Skyscrapers.

What I think is great about HomeGauge is the fact it can be edited to what "MY" clients want in a written report, in which I have had NOTHING but compliments from all of them through the years using HomeGauge.

Shame you start typing without apparently having any idea about what your talking about, let alone put one of the best inspection software companies down....

[Nick Gromicko]

Dale Duffy writes:

Shame you start typing without apparently having any idea about what your talking about, let alone put one of the best inspection software companies down....

apparently without reading my quote which he himself referenced in his own post which begins with me saying:

Originally Posted by gromicko
HG (HomeGauge) is great software for home inspectors, arguably the best...

I don't know much, but I know much about inspection software, as I said... HG is great for home inspections because the home inspection industry uses SOPs (either association's or state mandated)... and so an inspector doesn't have much leeway with regard to

what "MY" clients want in a written report

and not much leeway with regard to what the inspector is supposed to inspect. Our industry's home inspection reports and home inspection SOPs are dang near standardized across N. America.

What's great (and safe) about that for home inspections is exactly what is horrible (and dangerous) about that for commercial inspections, where up until www.nachi.org/comsop.htm most inspectors didn't know what to put into HG, and ASTM (despite oddly being titled an SOP) offers absolutely no clues as to what inspectors might want to put in it, what to do, what not to do, how to define things, what to exclude, what limitations to add, and what contractual clauses to include.

A good home inspection software company (HG) and a good scope of work permission form (ASTM's E2018 ) does not a Commercial Inspection SOP make.

But aside from www.nachi.org/comsop.htm providing that missing blue print that neither ASTM or HG provide... here is the real important part about www.nachi.org/comsop.htm...

Between certain definitions and all the limitations, contractual clauses, and exclusions, www.nachi.org/comsop.htm has literally hundreds of CYA sentences... yes hundreds. NO WAY can my average InterNACHI member think them all up. And it would be ruled by a court "unconcionable" for an inspector to include them all (all the things the inspector doesn't do) without including the other half (all the things the inspector should do) that would make the court see it as "reasonable." The perfect mix would provide both: the client with information he would likely value more than the cost of the inspector obtaining that information, while at the same covering the inspector's ****.

www.nachi.org/comsop does just that.... and furthermore, mere software doesn't.

Software is to sand on a beach... as an SOP is to footprints.

Futhermore, language provided by HomeGauge, Inc. will be looked upon by the courts much differently than the official Commercial Standards of Practice of the world's largest, international inspection trade association.

You're right, HG permits you to put in anything you want as does ASTM... and there in lies the problem with both.... unless of course you are an attorney/inspector and can author your own bullet proof Scope of Work document for each inspection, still not anywhere as good as being able to point to an international standard.

Anyway, one of us "doesn't have any idea about what he's talking about" and one of us does. I leave it to the reader of this post to decide for him or herself who is who.

[Dale Duffy]

apparently without reading my quote which he himself referenced in his own post which begins with me saying:

I don't know much, but I know much about inspection software, as I said... HG is great for home inspections because the home inspection industry uses SOPs (either association's or state mandated)... and so an inspector doesn't have much leeway with regard to and not much leeway with regard to what the inspector is supposed to inspect. Our industry's home inspection reports and home inspection SOPs are dang near standardized across N. America.

In Arizona you can add or subtract what will or what will not be inspected as agreed upon between the client and the inspector, the same as a commercial report, I don't know what other state SOP's mandate.

What's great (and safe) about that for home inspections is exactly what is horrible (and dangerous) about that for commercial inspections, where up until www.nachi.org/comsop.htm most inspectors didn't know what to put into HG, and ASTM (despite oddly being titled an SOP) offers absolutely no clues as to what inspectors might want to put in it, what to do, what not to do, how to define things, what to exclude, what limitations to add, and what contractual clauses to include.

Then in my professional opinion the inspector should be learning from other experienced commercial building inspectors rather than depending on anyones SOP or disclaimers, because they do not help you in the commercial inspection industry. The scope of work has to be defined in writing between both parties without any hint of the nachi c-sop, because it has no place in the commercial inspection business for anyone experienced or learning, in my opinion it will hurt someone who does not know how to define the scope of work. So when your document is shown to a client with the "Inspector is not required" nonsense the first thing which will go through an actual experienced commercial real estate investor-buyer will be I need to find an experienced inspector!

A good home inspection software company (HG) and a good scope of work permission form (ASTM's E201 does not a Commercial Inspection SOP make.

I read this three times and I cannot figure out what your saying.

But aside from www.nachi.org/comsop.htm providing that missing blue print that neither ASTM or HG provide... here is the real important part about www.nachi.org/comsop.htm...

There is nothing missing from a defined scope of work between parties, no sop is needed.

Between certain definitions and all the limitations, contractual clauses, and exclusions, www.nachi.org/comsop.htm has literally hundreds of CYA sentences... yes hundreds. NO WAY can my average InterNACHI member think them all up. And it would be ruled by a court "unconcionable" for an inspector to include them all (all the things the inspector doesn't do) without including the other half (all the things the inspector should do) that would make the court see it as "reasonable." The perfect mix would both provide the client with information he would likely value more than the cost of the inspector obtaining that information while at the same covering the inspector's ****. www.nachi.org/comsop does just that.

What I beleive you are not understanding is the fact that an experienced commercial inspector does not define what will NOT be inspected, you define what WILL BE INSPECTED, and NOTHING MORE than what is written clearly in the scope of work, with the signed agreement for the assessment of the building.

You're right, HG permits you to put in anything you want as does ASTM... and there in lies the problem with both.... unless of course you are an attorney/inspector.

Do what the client wants correctly and you will not need an attorney. People think about being sued more than they think about doing the best job possible.

Anyway, one of us doesn't know what he's talking about. I leave it to the reader of this post to decide for him or herself who is who.

All I can say is what I have personally experienced myself through the years without a single unhappy client, others, their milage may vary.

[Nick Gromicko]

One thing we agree on is that the average commercial inspector (in TODAY's market) doesn't know what he's doing.

I'm doing my best to cover for him.

[Brian E. Kelly]

You know Dale, Jason Chang would never speak like that.