CMI imposter?

[James E. Braun, CMI]

The main thing people do not understand that even if the mold is removed the toxic spores are still in the air. Mold will start releasing spores like crazy when it is being removed. Tape off unaffected areas, even ducts, and then create a negative air pressure inside the room. Also rent an air scrubber from a remediator for a couple of days. They only way you know the remediation is successful is to run air tests. I had to clean up my mom's bedroom twice. Air tests do not lie. Also all mold must be removed even if it is friendly or not. Even friendly molds can become toxic if the right environment is introduced.
Even dead mold spores have been proved to cause cancer. But what hasn't.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jbraun

The main thing people do not understand that even if the mold is removed the toxic spores are still in the air. Mold will start releasing spores like crazy when it is being removed. Tape off unaffected areas, even ducts, and then create a negative air pressure inside the room. Also rent an air scrubber from a remediator for a couple of days. They only way you know the remediation is successful is to run air tests. I had to clean up my mom's bedroom twice. Air tests do not lie. Also all mold must be removed even if it is friendly or not. Even friendly molds can become toxic if the right environment is introduced.
Even dead mold spores have been proved to cause cancer. But what hasn't.

Mold spores are in the air, already, looking for damp and dark places to attach to and grow. With the exception of the mold that flavors my blue cheese, I am confident that not too many of the the other molds that contaminate the air are good for me.

The idea is to prevent or eliminate the conditions in which these millions of spores that permeate our atmosphere can grow and thrive....thus increasing the parts per million of their spores in my breathing air to dangerous levels.

Bleach is a band aid. I do not think anyone has presented it to be a cure.

[Joe Farsetta]

James (Braun),

Do you contend that the CDC, pulmonologists, and immunologists are somehow behind the times with regard to mold and remediation?

My contention is that where mold has penetrated porous surfaces, such as sheetrock, that the sole remedy is to remove the affected item, clean behind it, and replace it. I like your idea of using air scrubbers, and agree that simple bleach may not be a cure-all.

BUT, bleach is a biocide that DOES kill mold... AND the use of biocides, including bleach solutions, is viable for cleaning contaminated surfaces and areas AS PART OF a holistic approach to ridding a structure of mold. Both the CDC and EPS still DO NOT recommending testing for mold once it is discovered, much to the dissapointment of mold labs across the land.

One thing I yould ask you to clarify, though:

Even dead mold spores have been proved to cause cancer.

Where, exactly, was this conclusion reached or research performed? The statement is perturbing, and leads me to believe you may be under-informed.

Perhaps you should read the minutes of national conferences of board-certified pulmonologists. While they agree that mold can, in certain circumstances and at tremendous levels, kill one who is quite sick already and who is immuno-comprimised, they do NOT generally subscribe to the hype or the panis. Allergists and immunologists agree that mold is a problem, but the overall effects of the toxins on the body are not nearly as "deadly" as the media and carnival side-show operators masquerading as mold experts would have everyone believe. My information comes directly from attendeed at those conferences; real board-certified medical doctors in pulmonology.

So, who has proven mold to cause cancer, and where did you get this information?

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

As a retired person you are often asked, "What do you do to make your day interesting?"

Well for example, the other day I went down to our village of Chester to do some shopping.

I came out the shop about 10 minutes later and saw a cop writing out a parking ticket.
I went up to him and said "Come on you jerkoff, how about giving a senior a break?"

He ignored me and continued writing the ticket. I called him a Nazi.
He glared at me and started writing another ticket for worn tires.
So I called him a piece of dog crap.

He finished the second ticket and put it on the windscreen with the first.
Then he started writing a third ticket. This went on for about 20 minutes.

The more I abused him, the more tickets he wrote.

Personally I didn't give a damn, I had walked into Chester.
I try to have a little fun each day now that I am retired. It's important at my age.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Before criticizing people, walk a mile in their shoes.

Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

An Industrial Hygiene association trade publication, about a year or two ago. Also I have heard other Industrial Hygienist certified in mold say the same thing. My mom's doctors do not think mold caused her hacking cough (In Louisiana it is called the Katrina cough). They think she just got better on her own, two days after I cleaned up the mold. Doctors only believe what they are taught in a school. My invitation is open to you also to meet perfectly healthy families, that are no longer healthy, here in Missouri that got there lives shattered by mold. If toxicity level is high enough it will even make a health person sick. I know of a house that I dare you to stay in for a week. If you do not get any long lasing health affects from it, I will never argue with you again. Also just last year a neighbor next to one of my rental properties died. The coroner said the cause of death was mold. Mold was found though out his system.
Air scubbers are a common practice in mold remediation in Missouri.

How do you know that the mold is not hiding behind something with out running an air test after remediation? How do you know how many rooms need to be cleaned? It is way cheaper to run air tests than to clean a 7,000 square foot building. If I did not run air tests after I cleaned my mom's bedroom I am certain she would have died in bed. I really thought I did a good job cleaning the first time. Air tests showed different.

[whandley]

Originally Posted by rbennett

How is it that we do not have some posting from someone that is in the profession

BTW -- Is everyone happy with the CMI monster issue?

rlb

Borate!

Twenty Mule Team Borax Soap for example is an excellent product for cleaning pourous surfaces. Nothing would be as effective as removal of the contaminated material however. When wood framing is involved, sanding and the application of an appropriate cleaning material is know doubt recommended. Those cleaning materials would NOT include standard household bleach, period... In fact the application of large quantities of bleach can actually supply a water/moisture source for the existing mold root systems to thrive.

[whandley]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

James (Braun),

Do you contend that the CDC, pulmonologists, and immunologists are somehow behind the times with regard to mold and remediation?

My contention is that where mold has penetrated porous surfaces, such as sheetrock, that the sole remedy is to remove the affected item, clean behind it, and replace it. I like your idea of using air scrubbers, and agree that simple bleach may not be a cure-all.

BUT, bleach is a biocide that DOES kill mold... AND the use of biocides, including bleach solutions, is viable for cleaning contaminated surfaces and areas AS PART OF a holistic approach to ridding a structure of mold. Both the CDC and EPS still DO NOT recommending testing for mold once it is discovered, much to the dissapointment of mold labs across the land.

One thing I yould ask you to clarify, though:



Where, exactly, was this conclusion reached or research performed? The statement is perturbing, and leads me to believe you may be under-informed.

Perhaps you should read the minutes of national conferences of board-certified pulmonologists. While they agree that mold can, in certain circumstances and at tremendous levels, kill one who is quite sick already and who is immuno-comprimised, they do NOT generally subscribe to the hype or the panis. Allergists and immunologists agree that mold is a problem, but the overall effects of the toxins on the body are not nearly as "deadly" as the media and carnival side-show operators masquerading as mold experts would have everyone believe. My information comes directly from attendeed at those conferences; real board-certified medical doctors in pulmonology.

So, who has proven mold to cause cancer, and where did you get this information?

I don't have the answers for many of those questions, but here's an excellent source of information about mycology and spcifically mold relating to structures:

http://www.theforagerpress.com/books...old/rp-bio.htm

He's a NACHI member as well. Maybe he can weigh in on some of these comments.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

bleach is a biocide that DOES kill mold...

Interesting READ

[Joe Farsetta]

David,

Yes, it is an interesting read and despite some innacuracies relative to US agencies actually RECOMMENDING the use of bleach solution, this website SUPPORTS my statements that bleach does, in fact, kill mold.

Before anyone puts up a link to mold testing laboratories as being Gospel, they need to ensure that the information referenced is 1) accurate and 2) supports their point. In the case of the link provided, both areas are in dispute. If research was performed on the information they provided, one would find that the restriction on the use of biocides by the NY City Department of Health relative to mold remediation, pertains SPECIFICALLY to biocides applies in an aeroeol or gaseous state, and NOT a 10% bleach solution used for cleanup.

Here is a direct quote from the link you posted:

Biocides are generally not recommended for indoor mould control primarily due to health concerns. However, careful selection and use of these products may be needed in some situations, for example where immuno-compromised workers are involved (which is what I have been sayong for DAYS, now) or to eliminate infectious agents from grey/black water contamination. Current mould remediation guidelines such as those by the Canadian Construction Association, the Environmental Abatement Council of Ontario (EACO) and the New York City Department of Health also do not recommend use of biocides in mould remediation. Also, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) does not "approve" biocides for mould remediation applications (this is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE, and if one were to investigate either of theses references, woud quickly discover that the statement is bogus. NY City cautions against the use of aerosol biocides))and cautions against using disinfectants and sanitizers in ventilation systems.

Here's another clip from that same site you linked to:

Biocides may not be completely effective against indoor moulds
Microbial growth on building materials may be controlled by using various biocides. However, different microbial genera have been shown to have considerable variation in their sensitivity to biocides. The variation in efficacy of biocides against different micro-organisms suggests that it may not be possible to completely prevent the microbial growth on building materials and thus their incorporation should be carefully considered and tested. Being an enclosed system, the indoor environment may not allow application of protectant biocides due to health concerns as discussed above. For most eradicant biocides to be effective against mould, they must get into contact with the mould. However, since mould is capable of growing deep inside their substrates (in this case building materials), it may be difficult to ensure the biocide has come into contact with the entire mould. Only the mould on the surface of the infested material would be killed. A recent study indicated that incomplete control of Stachybotrys chartarum resulted to production of spores of higher toxicity than those spores from untreated mould.

So, and to my point, bleach (a biocide) does in fact kill mold. The ability of ANY biocide, cleaning agent, or chemical application to porous or semi-porous surfaces to eradicate mold is a known fact, and is based on saturation of the materials, as opposed to whether the treatment agent in fact kills mold.

Here is something clipped from a .pdf file derived from the NY City DOH website, specifically pertaining to moild remediation:

46. What is the manual cleaning method for cleaning up mold?

The method often used to remove mold is the manual cleaning method developed by the New York City Dept. of Health. See:

www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doh/html/epi/moldrpt1.html. Also see the ACGIH

booklet titled Bioaerosols—Assessment and Control.


The New York City procedure is as follows:

• Soap Cleanup:

•

Before disinfecting contaminated areas, clean the areas to remove as

much of the mold as possible.

• Wear gloves



• Scrub with hot water and detergent



• Use a stiff brush or cleaning pad on uneven surfaces



• Rinse clean with water



• Disinfect Surfaces:



• Wear rubber gloves



• Disinfect the area with a solution of 10% household bleach; e.g., use 1 ½ cup bleach per gallon of water



• Never mix bleach with ammonia—the fumes are toxic

•

Make sure the entire surface is wetted

• Let disinfecting areas dry naturally overnight. This extended time is important to kill all the mold.



• Bleach fumes can irritate the eyes, nose, and throat, and damage clothing and shoes. Make sure the working area is well ventilated. Take frequent breaks in fresh air.



• Consider wearing a N95 mask to protect against inhalation of mold spores. Do not select persons who have allergies or asthma to do this work.

48. Are gas biocides recommended for cleaning up mold?

No. New York City does not recommend use of gas biocides such as ozone or chlorine dioxide, gases that are typically used after manual cleaning. Both gases are toxic to all life. If great care is not taken in handling them, contractors can be killed or seriously injured. Moreover, residual gas left in the building after gassing is completed may produce adverse health effects among building occupants, especially those with asthma or other chronic respiratory problems.

[John McKenna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCexJJs8avw

Mold Sniffing Dog
*************************************
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFu50mL9M8s

Mold Free Certified homes coming to Florida via state law?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJsJU...elated&search=


I do not agree or disagree with all opinions expressed
in this clip.

[Brian E. Kelly]

So have you guys caught the imposter yet?

[ekartal6]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

So have you guys caught the imposter yet?

I say it's Dale.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by ekartal6

I say it's Dale.

Hey Erol,....I'm a Arizona Master Inspector, I know "Pool Chlorine" works...... ..........right out of the bottle...........

Skip all the bleach nonsense...................

[David P. Valley]

More info


Read #2 on this article


And even more info


I proved my point...I'm done now.