CMI imposter?

[Michael Larson]

I use



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[James H. Bushart]

In my recent quest to become the deal killer of all time, I have recommended today in my report of a 100 year old home in St. Louis that the basement shows evidence of an extraordinary concentration of dihydrogen monoxide and that a specialist be consulted for mitigation.

I point out how thousands of persons die each year from inhaling dihydrogen monoxide and how it is present in many poisons. It has also been found in the removed tumors of some cancer patients. This dangerous chemical should not be treated lightly, for it is known to be highly corrosive.

By the way, bleach won't kill it. In fact, large amounts of dyhydrogen monoxide have been known to effectively neutralize the effects of bleach.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Originally Posted by jbushart

In my recent quest to become the deal killer of all time, I have recommended today in my report of a 100 year old home in St. Louis that the basement shows evidence of an extraordinary concentration of dihydrogen monoxide and that a specialist be consulted for mitigation.

I point out how thousands of persons die each year from inhaling dihydrogen monoxide and how it is present in many poisons. It has also been found in the removed tumors of some cancer patients. This dangerous chemical should not be treated lightly, for it is known to be highly corrosive.

By the way, bleach won't kill it. In fact, large amounts of dyhydrogen monoxide have been known to effectively neutralize the effects of bleach.

H2O...

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by jbushart

In my recent quest to become the deal killer of all time, I have recommended today in my report of a 100 year old home in St. Louis that the basement shows evidence of an extraordinary concentration of dihydrogen monoxide and that a specialist be consulted for mitigation.

I point out how thousands of persons die each year from inhaling dihydrogen monoxide and how it is present in many poisons. It has also been found in the removed tumors of some cancer patients. This dangerous chemical should not be treated lightly, for it is known to be highly corrosive.

By the way, bleach won't kill it. In fact, large amounts of dyhydrogen monoxide have been known to effectively neutralize the effects of bleach.

Dihydrogen monoxide is a scientific name for WATER that is relatively unknown to most of the public. It is used in hoaxes that illustrate how the lack of scientific knowledge and an exaggerated analysis can lead to misplaced fears. "Di" meaning two, and "Mono" meaning single, describes how water is made up of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom (H2O).

MSNBC news regarding Dihydrogen Monoxide

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dvalley

Dihydrogen monoxide is a scientific name for WATER that is relatively unknown to most of the public. It is used in hoaxes that illustrate how the lack of scientific knowledge and an exaggerated analysis can lead to misplaced fears.

uh huh.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

A guy just last year in my area died of over exposure of water. Ha, he drowned in the river. I guess to much of anything is bad for you.
As far as the bleach killing mold argument. I have seen it not work in several occasions personally. As soon as I see a mold protocol written with the use of bleach, then I may consider revisting. I prefer to take my advise from people who have there legal necks on the line analyzing mold remediation problems.
I had something interesting happen to be this week. A general contractor threaten to sue me if I wrote in my report, on a less than one year old commercial building, referring the foundation to a foundation specialist. There are drywall nail pops and a door will not close in one corner of the building. He claims he used green lumber. He does not know that I am going to highly recommend testing for mold toxicity and spore spread in a unfinished unit that has over 1000 sq ft of mold growth under the floor above. I am finishing up the report now, turning it in to the Realtor tomorrow. It should be an interesting week coming up.

[Joe Farsetta]

James,
I guess you havent followed any non-vendor sponsored link.

As soon as I see a mold protocol written with the use of bleach, then I may consider revisting.

EPA, CDC, and OSHA, along with NY City say to use 1 part of bleach to 10 parts of water.

Plain old soap and water should be used first.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

I do not pay much attention to vendors mainly Industrial Hygienist who are certified in mold, who are actually in the field.
Yes, you got to remove all the dirt first, if you are hoping a biocide will work.

[James H. Bushart]

More people have died from dihydrogen monoxide this year, alone, than from mold in the last century.

My company is offering a special add-on service to each home inspection for an additional fee of $249, to detect and report this dangerous chemical.

[Donald R. Peterson]

Ok,
Back in the early 80's during my undergrad work, I was able to conduct a study of mold on building products and the effects of bleach. This was a entry level experiment with only limited control measures. I cant find the data or the paper, so this is going from memory.

50 building products were taken from 8-10 residential basements. That ranged from drywall, paneling ceiling tiles, carpet and so on. They were mostly porous materials, but 5-8 were non-porous. each sample was 1sq ft.
The amount of mold spores or colonization was not considered, except a visual of at least 25% coverage.
Each sample was sprayed with a solution of 4:1 of off the shelf bleach and distilled water. There was a certain number of spray pumps per sample, don't remember. Each sample was kept in a separate controlled environment of 55 Deg and 25-30 % humidity. The bleach solution was sprayed on and left for 7 days and then reapply. after another 14 days i examined new fungal growth.
From what i remember, the hard surface samples had no growth and no evidence of any visual fungal colonization(The bleach was highly effective).
The porous group had a small grouping (maybe 20%)that showed no visual fungal evidence; a larger grouping that showed the original colonization was no longer intact, but new colonization was forming, and a small group that at least some of the original fungal colony was intact and also new growth was observed.
So I determined that bleach has a limited effective on all building products tested, but it may have promoted colonization of other areas within the samples. This finding of limited effectiveness excluded the bleach solution as a means to eradicate mold on an overall basis.

Not the most scientific experiment, but was very useful for a freshmen level class.

From that time on I believe that bleach has a very limited effectiveness on porous materials without mechanical agitation.

So the EPA can state whatever they want, I seen it in action, and don't believe bleach is a good remediation product.
Now, if one was to add a way to fully encompass the mold(ie. mechanical agitation), including it's roots, it may produce the same result as the non porous samples. To the unknowing pubic, IMHO simply spraying a bleach solution would not effectively kill all the mold. I do believe that bleach does kill mold, but the proper application would seem to be key and may not be obtainable by the average homeowner.

I would like to see some real scientific data on effectiveness of bleach on porous building materials within lab conditions and real conditions within a home.

[Joe Farsetta]

Don,

Absolutely NO ARGUMENT here. The question was whether bleach kills mold or not. It does.

Now, will it penetrate porous surfaces and do the trick?: Not really, but neither will most other products out there. If one were to read the protocols, they would see that the recommendation is to clean with soap and water, to remove porous materials where mold has penetratedthe surface, and in limited applications, the use of a biocide may be warranted. One of the more common and cheap biocides available is bleach, which is why I believe it is mentioned.

But, some "firms" claim thyat bleach only lightens the color of mold and will not kill it. Others state that it is not recommended by the agencies I mention. I am a purist. I do not argue as to the ability of this or any biocide to penetrate a porous surface and kill all the mold. The statement was that bleach does not kill mold, which is false. Other statements were made that the EPA and OSHA do not recommend its use, which is also false.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION........

Quote: James Braun:
Dwight Barnett claims to be a certified master inspector. But I can not find him listed on certifiedmasterinspector.org . http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2007/sep/07/home_bathroom_fungus_farm_needs_detective_work_use /

What can be done about him?
End Quote:

Dwight Barnett is a certified master inspector with the American Society of Home Inspectors. Write to him with home-improvement questions at C. Dwight Barnett, Evansville Courier & Press, P.O. Box 286, Evansville, IN 47702.

[Joe Farsetta]

If Dwight is not a CMI, he shouldnt be using the title. Someone send me more info, and I will investigate and send him a cease and desist.

As to Mr. Valley... David Valley and I are friends, have been friends, agree with each other more than we disagree, stand up for each other, support each other, and will remain friends. He is an excellent inspector, and a good person. I like him and, more importantly, respect him. It will take a lot more than bleach and mold for me to ever change my opinion.

That is for the record.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

As to Mr. Valley... David Valley and I are friends, have been friends, agree with each other more than we disagree, stand up for each other, support each other, and will remain friends. He is an excellent inspector, and a good person. I like him and, more importantly, respect him. It will take a lot more than bleach and mold for me to ever change my opinion.

That is for the record.

Joe,

I gotta admit, it was one hell of a thread, buddy. It was simply all in fun, and I'm glad you realize that. There's so much information and opinions on the internet nowadays...you don't know who to believe. I was simply exploiting.

I'm looking forward to your upcoming course in New England. Do you have a ETA yet? Don't forget to submit your info to the Mass. Board of HI's.

Do me a favor, send me an email or give me a call regarding your upcoming courses, so we can keep this thread on topic.

[klott]

Now this is just a guess, I am no expert on Mold or bleach, but the reason why Bleach kills the mold at first but it comes back is because the bleach evaporates after 72 hours. Lets just say there is a bad water leak and the 2x4's get water logged, the inspector finds it and sprays it with a mixture of bleach and water, it kills the mold immediately, but after 3 days the bleach(Chlorine) has evaporated,but it has not been long enough for all of the water to come to the outside of the woods surface, on the 4th and subsequent days new mold has a moist surface on which to grow. So to totally stop the mold growth, you would need to retreat the area over and over until the moisture content was no longer high enough to support the mold. I have used bleach before, but I had to go back and repeat the treatrment to be sucessful. The wood decays from the outside in. Also last year a college student consumed large quantities of dihydrogen monoxide on a bet and died from massive brain swell.