International Association of Certified Home Inspectors

Billy Boerner · #46 6/14/09, 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

It sounds like you have plenty of education. Do you feel that
that a CMI should have ANY experience doing fee paid inspections?

It can be said that we will open a can of worms if we qualify CMI's
who have never done an inspection?

So what do you thinks if fair to inspectors and consumers alike?
Solutions are better than just complaints.

BTW... there is no perfect system IMHO.

Yes IMHO one should have a number of fee paid inspections under their belt. That's what we do. However, currently the system reads and/or and if we played fair with the current setup Marcel meets the or. Being in the military I follow and have read tons of regulations and right now your regulation is caught in a grey spot. IMPO award Marcel the badge of honor. He's earned it. Then change the policy to read 1000 paid inspections regardless what education you have. The education portion opened up a can of worms if you ask me.

Marcel R. Cyr · #47 6/14/09, 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

It sounds like you have plenty of education. Do you feel that
that a CMI should have ANY experience doing fee paid inspections?

It can be said that we will open a can of worms if we qualify CMI's
who have never done an inspection?

So what do you thinks if fair to inspectors and consumers alike?
Solutions are better than just complaints.

BTW... there is no perfect system IMHO.

John, a CMI should have a little more experience than being able to say that he has done 1000 paid inspections in my opinion.
There is no evidence that those 1000 inspections were done correctly to begin with.

I do not wish to open a can of worms and have know personal approval for Members that have not done any Inspections at all.
I have done inspections and it is not rocket science with the experience factor involved.

You are mistaken, I am not complaining, I am just pointing out that some Members out there may qualify for this title based on experience, background and related inspection items that are not taken into consideration.
Not all Home Inspectors live in a populated area where 1000 inspections are conceivably achievable in a couple of years.

There are a lot of Inspectors out there that provide a simple walk through and collect money type of scenario.

I just feel it needs to be looked in a little further for other Members, that is all.

And what is fair to the Consumer, well that is a question best answered by the consumer themselves.

John McKenna · #48 6/14/09, 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboerner

John -- Marcel has a point. What do you consider to be home inspection related? Is there certain classes you all have set in stone or is it up to you to determine? To answer your question I think what you have in place is just fine. However I could easily make up a story that I've done 1000 paid inspections. How do you all verify this? Does everyone send you all 1000 reports? I say before one can be verfied as a master inspector one needs to be certified on site by another master inspector.

A fellow CMI can lie to help his friend. Sending in 1000 reports
done with today's software will always look good, even if done
wrong onsite. All types of lies can be inserted into any system.

No perfect system can be created, plus the dynamics of man
power hours and the verification process could go on and
on. We are not trying to approve someone as a member
of the FBI secret service.

We tried to create a reasonable system, not perfect. Do
you know a perfect system?

Billy Boerner · #49 6/14/09, 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

A fellow CMI can lie to help his friend. Sending in 1000 reports
done with today's software will always look good, even if done
wrong onsite. All types of lies can be inserted into any system.

No perfect system can be created, plus the dynamics of man
power hours and the verification process could go on and
on. We are not trying to approve someone as a member
of the FBI secret service.

We tried to create a reasonable system, not perfect. Do
you know a perfect system?

As discussed per IM's I think the system is fine. However get rid of the grey and start requiring 1K inspection PLUS so many hours of CE not either or IMPO.

John McKenna · #50 6/14/09, 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcyr

John, a CMI should have a little more experience than being able to say that he has done 1000 paid inspections in my opinion.
There is no evidence that those 1000 inspections were done correctly to begin with.

There is NO WAY to perfectly verify that all 1000 inspection
were done properly, with verifiable eye witness evidence, for
anyone.

Anyone can create a nice report with today's software,
that will keep the report within the SoP.

I do not wish to open a can of worms and have know personal approval for Members that have not done any Inspections at all.
I have done inspections and it is not rocket science with the experience factor involved.

You are mistaken, I am not complaining, I am just pointing out that some Members out there may qualify for this title based on experience, background and related inspection items that are not taken into consideration.

Tell me how to set up this solution.

Not all Home Inspectors live in a populated area where 1000 inspections are conceivably achievable in a couple of years.

It is 1000 combined CE/inspections.
Not 1000 inspections by itself.
Please see the CMI website.

There are a lot of Inspectors out there that provide a simple walk through and collect money type of scenario.

I agree. Most will deny the are doing an "inspection" when
doing a "walk through".

I just feel it needs to be looked in a little further for other Members, that is all.

What is your solution?

And what is fair to the Consumer, well that is a question best answered by the consumer themselves.

We believe our current CMI qualification meet the needs
of the consumer as well. Unless you have a better idea.

All the best.

John McKenna · #51 6/14/09, 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboerner

Yes IMHO one should have a number of fee paid inspections under their belt. That's what we do. However, currently the system reads and/or and if we played fair with the current setup Marcel meets the or. Being in the military I follow and have read tons of regulations and right now your regulation is caught in a grey spot. IMPO award Marcel the badge of honor. He's earned it. Then change the policy to read 1000 paid inspections regardless what education you have. The education portion opened up a can of worms if you ask me.

If we change the policy to your system, then it would disqualify
Marcel. I know you would not like that.

If we let Marcel in as a CMI by bending the rules, then every other
contractor who comes along would claim we were unfair.

We cannot change the rules to let one person get in the door
and then tell eveyone else that the rules have been made
harder for them. If the rules are changed, it will not be for
the sake of one person's personal benefit.

I think Marcel may already qualify under the current system... correct?

John McKenna · #52 6/14/09, 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboerner

As discussed per IM's I think the system is fine. However get rid of the grey and start requiring 1K inspection PLUS so many hours of CE not either or IMPO.

Under the current system... Marcel would qualify if he has
3 years experience.

Under your system.... Marcel would never qualify because
he does so few inspections.

Think about that and tell me if that is really fair.

What about the other contractors, like Marcel, who come
along in the future? We have to be fair to them as well.

Billy Boerner · #53 6/14/09, 4:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

If we change the policy to your system, then it would disqualify
Marcel. I know you would not like that.

If we let Marcel in as a CMI by bending the rules, then every other
contractor who comes along would claim we were unfair.

We cannot change the rules to let one person get in the door
and then tell eveyone else that the rules have been made
harder for them. If the rules are changed, it will not be for
the sake of one person's personal benefit.

I think Marcel may already qualify under the current system... correct?

Correct. However you can always add to the rules after you let Marcel in under the rules currently set. He earned it and he qualifies just as you and I agreed.

Billy Boerner · #54 6/14/09, 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Under the current system... Marcel would qualify if he has
3 years experience.

Under your system.... Marcel would never qualify because
he does so few inspections.

Think about that and tell me if that is really fair.

Marcel has been inspecting for 4.5 yrs now. Your right wouldn't be ideal for people like Marcel under my system. Maybe lower the requirements to 500 inspections plus so many hours of CE. Right now the way it reads one can combine the two. So with that said I could have 980 CE's and only done 20 inspections over a three year period and still qualify. See my point? Set it at a reasonable rate for all however require both sets of skills onsite and CE.

John McKenna · #55 6/14/09, 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboerner

Marcel has been inspecting for 4.5 yrs now. Your right wouldn't be ideal for people like Marcel under my system. Maybe lower the requirements to 500 inspections plus so many hours of CE. Right now the way it reads one can combine the two. So with that said I could have 980 CE's and only done 20 inspections over a three year period and still qualify. See my point? Set it at a reasonable rate for all however require both sets of skills onsite and CE.

OK... you are correct.

There are (very rare) some highly qualified educators who
have tons of education and previous construction experience,
who do not do many actual inspection in a 3 year period.

They are CMI's as well.

Our current system allows people like Marcel to come in.
I like that.

Over 90% of the HI industry fail within the first 3 years (3 yrs is
a good filter, but it will never be perfect). Less than 1% of the
of the HI industryi qualify as a CMI with our current system...
I think that is pretty good qualifier IMHO.

Thanks for the feedback.

Marcel R. Cyr · #56 6/14/09, 5:10 PM

John, thank you for letting us debate this topic and just would like to tell you that I have been using myself as an example so others can understand all of this discussion.

And Billy, Thank you for your involvement. You are always a go getter, and that is good for an HI in this economy.

The best of luck to you both.

Well done on both parties.

Billy Boerner · #57 6/14/09, 5:15 PM

John and Marcel,

Any time guys. If all else fails people will remember that I love to learn. Just ask Jeff Pope lol

. Probably driving him up the wall. At any rate Marcel enjoy your CMI status. I clearly understand what I need to do in order to join the ranks. See you soon.