Swimming Pool safety requiments...Question

[David Nasser]

I always put in red:

Automatic locking gates that access the backyard
Alarms on doors that exit to the backyard area
And a Pool fence around the rim of the pool.

What is the state requirement?

I have a Realtor saying that a Pool fence around the Pool
is not required. And that verbiage in red could stop the sale
because the Seller is not going to add a Pool fence.

I countered that its a safety recommendation....What is
the correct verbiage so I can advise the customer of safety?

And I can stand my ground to the realtor...

David

[Tim Spargo]

Almost Dave... call your B & S dept.. but here's a note on pools. And attached a .pdf

It's the AND part of the fencing that may likely be an OR..

I don't know how well this will copy/paste... but here's the CA req's on pool safety. Once again call your Building and Safety.. this is general stuff.


16.2 - California Health & Safety Code * A required Note on Pool Safety
115922. (a) Commencing January 1, 2007, except as provided in Section 115925, whenever a building
permit is issued for construction of a new swimming pool or spa, or any building permit is issued for
remodeling of an existing pool or spa, at a private, single-family home, it shall be equipped with at least
one of the following seven drowning prevention safety features:
(1) The pool shall be isolated from access to a home by an enclosure that meets the requirements of
Section 115923.
(2) The pool shall incorporate removable mesh pool fencing that meets American Society for Testing and
Materials (ASTM) Specifications F 2286 standards in conjunction with a gate that is self-closing and self-latching and can accommodate a key lockable device.
(3) The pool shall be equipped with an approved safety pool cover that meets all requirements of the
ASTM Specifications F1346.
(4) The residence shall be equipped with exit alarms on those doors providing direct access to the pool.
(5) All doors providing direct access from the home to the swimming pool shall be equipped with a
self-closing, self-latching device with a release mechanism placed no lower than 54 inches above the
floor.
(6) Swimming pool alarms that, when placed in pools, will sound upon detection of accidental or
unauthorized entrance into the water. These pool alarms shall meet and be independently certified to the ASTM Standard F 2208 "Standards Specification for Pool Alarms" which includes surface motion, pressure, sonar, laser, and infrared type alarms. For purposes of this article, "swimming pool alarms" shall not include swimming protection alarm devices designed for individual use, such as an alarm attached to a child that sounds when the child exceeds a certain distance or becomes submerged in water.
(7) Other means of protection, if the degree of protection afforded is equal to or greater than that afforded
by any of the Devices set forth above, and have been independently verified by an approved testing
laboratory as meeting standards for those devices established by the ASTM or the American Society of
Mechanical Engineers (ASME).
(b) Prior to the issuance of any final approval for the completion of permitted construction or remodeling
work, the Local building code official shall inspect the drowning safety prevention devices required by this act and if no violations are found, shall give final approval.
115923. An enclosure shall have all of the following characteristics:
(a) Any access gates through the enclosure open away from the swimming pool, and are self-closing with a self latching device placed no lower than 60 inches above the ground.
(b) A minimum height of 60 inches
(c) A maximum vertical clearance from the ground to the bottom of the enclosure of two inches.
(d) Gaps or voids, if any, do not allow passage of a sphere equal to or greater than four inches in
diameter.
(e) An outside surface free of protrusions, cavities, or other physical characteristics that would serve as
handholds or footholds that could enable a child below the age of five years to climb over.
115928. Whenever a building permit is issued for the construction of a new swimming pool or spa, the
pool or spa shall meet all of the following requirements:
(a) (1) The suction outlet of the pool or spa for which the permit is issued shall be equipped to provide
circulation throughout the pool or spa as prescribed in paragraph (2).
(2) The swimming pool or spa shall have at least two circulation drains per pump that shall be hydraulically balanced and symmetrically plumbed through one or more "T" fittings, and that are
separated by a distance of at least three feet in any dimension between the drains.
(b) Suction outlets that are less than 12 inches across shall be covered with anti-entrapment grates, as
specified in the ASME/ANSI Standard A 112.19.8, that cannot be removed except with the use of tools.
Slots or openings in the grates or similar protective devices shall be of a shape, area, and arrangement
that would prevent physical entrapment and would not pose any suction hazard to bathers.
(c) Any backup safety system that an owner of a new swimming pool or spa may choose to install in
addition to the requirements set forth in subdivisions (a) and (b) shall meet the standards as published in
the document, "Guidelines for Entrapment Hazards: Making Pools and Spas Safer," Publication Number
363, March 2005, United States Consumer Product Safety Commission.
115928.5. Whenever a building permit is issued for the remodel or modification of an existing swimming
pool, toddler pool, or spa, the permit shall require that the suction outlet of the existing swimming pool,
toddler pool, or spa be upgraded so as to be equipped with an anti-entrapment cover meeting current
standards of the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) or the American Society of
Mechanical Engineers (ASME).

[Tim Spargo]

For example, in many areas, a pool could be considered protected by way of self closing gates/garage side doors etc with latches at proper location and heights.. and audible alarms from the exterior doors that give access from living space to the pool areas. You can give some basic info from your muni, and let the customer go from there.

[John Gromkoski]

Originally Posted by dnasser

I always put in red:

Automatic locking gates that access the backyard
Alarms on doors that exit to the backyard area
And a Pool fence around the rim of the pool.

What is the state requirement?

I have a Realtor saying that a Pool fence around the Pool
is not required. And that verbiage in red could stop the sale
because the Seller is not going to add a Pool fence.

I countered that its a safety recommendation....What is
the correct verbiage so I can advise the customer of safety?

And I can stand my ground to the realtor...

David

I almost never put anything in red unless I can be extremely consistent with it. My problem is what do I put in red and what don't I put in red? Is one safety item more important than another safety item? Based on input received from others hear on this board, I also do not include a summary page with my inspection report. I want my client to read the entire report not just the summary or the highlighted items. I kind of hedge on letting the client decide what they want to correct or negotiate with the seller. I also recently decided not to use the word "recommend" and "required" in my comments. I just describe the defect and add something like "correct as needed". Just my 2 cents.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Tim's post addresses new construction and/or remodeling, but even existing pools require an appropriate enclosure.

Other than the exception listed below, the only other time an enclosure is not required is when/if the B&S Department has issued a variance for a specific property. It is not typical for a variance to be issued, but they do exist.

The following are the CA Building Code Sections that apply to pool and spa enclosures;

3109.4 Residential swimming pools. Residential swimming pools shall comply with Sections 3109.4.1 through 3109.4.3.

Exception: A swimming pool with a power safety cover or a spa with a safety cover complying with ASTM F 1346.

3109.4.1 Barrier height and clearances. The top of the barrier shall be at least 48 inches (1219 mm) above grade measured on the side of the barrier that faces away from the swimming pool. The maximum vertical clearance between grade and the bottom of the barrier shall be 2 inches (51 mm) measured on the side of the barrier that faces away from the swimming pool. Where the top of the pool structure is above grade, the barrier is authorized to be at ground level or mounted on top of the pool structure, and the maximum vertical clearance between the top of the pool structure and the bottom of the barrier shall be 4 inches (102 mm).

3109.4.1.1 Openings. Openings in the barrier shall not allow passage of a 4-inch-diameter (102 mm) sphere.

3109.4.1.2 Solid barrier surfaces. Solid barriers which do not have openings shall not contain indentations or protrusions except for normal construction tolerances and tooled masonry joints.

3109.4.1.3 Closely spaced horizontal members. Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members and the distance between the tops of the horizontal members is less than 45 inches (1143 mm), the horizontal members shall be located on the swimming pool side of the fence. Spacing between vertical members shall not exceed 13/4 inches (44 mm) in width. Where there are decorative cutouts within vertical members, spacing within the cutouts shall not exceed 13/4 inches (44 mm) in width.

3109.4.1.4 Widely spaced horizontal members. Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members and the distance between the tops of the horizontal members is 45 inches (1143 mm) or more, spacing between vertical members shall not exceed 4 inches (102 mm). Where there are decorative cutouts within vertical members, spacing within the cutouts shall not exceed 13/4 inches (44 mm) in width.

3109.4.1.5 Chain link dimensions. Maximum mesh size for chain link fences shall be a 21/4 inch square (57 mm square) unless the fence is provided with slats fastened at the top or the bottom which reduce the openings to no more than 13/4 inches (44 mm).

3109.4.1.6 Diagonal members. Where the barrier is composed of diagonal members, the maximum opening formed by the diagonal members shall be no more than 13/4 inches (44 mm).

3109.4.1.7 Gates. Access doors or gates shall comply with the requirements of Sections 3109.4.1.1 through 3109.4.1.6 and shall be equipped to accommodate a locking device. Pedestrian access doors or gates shall open outward away from the pool and shall be self-closing and have a self-latching device. Doors or gates other than pedestrian access doors or gates shall have a self-latching device. Release mechanisms shall be in accordance with Sections 1008.1.9 and 1109.12. Where the release mechanism of the self-latching device is located less than 54 inches (1372 mm) from the bottom of the door or gate, the release mechanism shall be located on the pool side of the door or gate at least 3 inches (76 mm) below the top of the door or gate, and the door or gate and barrier shall have no opening greater than 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) within 18 inches (457 mm) of the release mechanism.

3109.4.1.8 Dwelling wall as a barrier. Where a wall of a dwelling serves as part of the barrier, one of the following shall apply:
1. Doors with direct access to the pool through that wall shall be equipped with an alarm that produces an audible warning when the door and/or its screen, if present, are opened. The alarm shall be listed and labeled in accordance with UL 2017. In dwellings not required to be Accessible units, Type A units or Type B units, the deactivation switch shall be located 54 inches (1372 mm) or more above the threshold of the door. In dwellings required to be Accessible units, Type A units or Type B units, the deactivation switch( es) shall be located at 54 inches (1372 mm) maximum and 48 inches (1219 mm) minimum above the threshold of the door.
2. The pool shall be equipped with a power safety cover that complies with ASTM F 1346.
3. Other means of protection, such as self-closing doors with self-latching devices, which are approved, shall be accepted so long as the degree of protection afforded is not less than the protection afforded by Section 3109.4.1.8, Item 1 or 2.

[Tim Spargo]

3109.4.1.8 Dwelling wall as a barrier. Where a wall of a dwelling serves as part of the barrier, one of the following shall apply:
1. Doors with direct access to the pool through that wall shall be equipped with an alarm that produces an audible warning when the door and/or its screen, if present, are opened. The alarm shall be listed and labeled in accordance with UL 2017. In dwellings not required to be Accessible units, Type A units or Type B units, the deactivation switch shall be located 54 inches (1372 mm) or more above the threshold of the door. In dwellings required to be Accessible units, Type A units or Type B units, the deactivation switch( es) shall be located at 54 inches (1372 mm) maximum and 48 inches (1219 mm) minimum above the threshold of the door.
2. The pool shall be equipped with a power safety cover that complies with ASTM F 1346.
3. Other means of protection, such as self-closing doors with self-latching devices, which are approved, shall be accepted so long as the degree of protection afforded is not less than the protection afforded by Section 3109.4.1.8, Item 1 or 2.


Good reference. And probably where the OR may fit instead of the AND.

[David Nasser]

Thanks everybody for the info. I have enough now to make a decision that protects the client first and me second....

[Robert Ernst]

I don't see it in the code provided but I always make sure that the gate opens out ward and that there is nothing that a kid can climb on close to the gate that would give them access to the latch. Also I look over the neighbors side of the fence and check to see if there is a built up planter or something else that would basically shorten the fence on their side. If it is most of the time than not the pool owner has to extend the height of the fence in that area to get the required 4'. The exception is if both homes have a pool.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by rernst1

I don't see it in the code provided but I always make sure that the gate opens out ward

3109.4.1.7 Gates. Access doors or gates shall comply with the requirements of Sections 3109.4.1.1 through 3109.4.1.6 and shall be equipped to accommodate a locking device. Pedestrian access doors or gates shall open outward away from the pool and shall be self-closing and have a self-latching device.

Originally Posted by rernst1

Also I look over the neighbors side of the fence and check to see if there is a built up planter or something else that would basically shorten the fence on their side. If it is most of the time than not the pool owner has to extend the height of the fence in that area to get the required 4'.

3109.4.1 Barrier height and clearances. The top of the barrier shall be at least 48 inches (1219 mm) above grade measured on the side of the barrier that faces away from the swimming pool.

[Michael Estupinian]

Perimeter fencing is required by most counties and cities. Some counties exclude perimeter fencing but usually they are in very rural areas. Automatic covers will serve as a secure safety device providing the dead man switch is in clear view of the pool. Most areas require self closing, self latching gates with no hand holds or footholds with a sphere greater than 2". Good neighbor fencing usually have a foot hold on the lower section of fence and would need to be modified. No crawl space greater than 2 inches from the earth or decking. This is most of what I remembered getting permits from different local counties. Most importantly you must check with the governing local building dept for clear code requirements, they do change and every county or city have different requirements. Any work being done to the pool will require the person to bring the pool up to current code due to entrapment issues,ie split drain!
hope it helps.
Mike

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by dnasser

I always put in red:

Automatic locking gates that access the backyard
Alarms on doors that exit to the backyard area
And a Pool fence around the rim of the pool.

What is the state requirement?

I have a Realtor saying that a Pool fence around the Pool
is not required. And that verbiage in red could stop the sale
because the Seller is not going to add a Pool fence.

I countered that its a safety recommendation....What is
the correct verbiage so I can advise the customer of safety?

And I can stand my ground to the realtor...

David

Hi David, I probably Defect out over 80% of "Pool Barriers" I inspect. I write it in Red myself -(all my summary is Red, no one reads the entire report), and it is a Life Safety issue. I work in more than one Jurisdiction, and do not specifically call out each Jurisdictions Specific Requirements. I make a Generic Comment mentioning to check all Local Pool Safety Requirements.

I call out unsafe Pool Drains as well.

As I recall, the Standard Real Estate Purchase has quite a few pages of Disclaimers regarding Pools and Pool safety. Might want to ask the Real Estate Person to have a look at it some time.

It is up to the Client as to what they want to do with ANY of the Info/Suggestions I make in my reports.

[kschaumann]

And a Pool fence around the rim of the pool.

What is the state requirement?

I have a Realtor saying that a Pool fence around the Pool
is not required. And that verbiage in red could stop the sale
because the Seller is not going to add a Pool fence.

I countered that its a safety recommendation....What is
the correct verbiage so I can advise the customer of safety?

And I can stand my ground to the realtor...

David[/quote]



David,
A pool around the rim is NOT required in most juristictions, but yes to self closing gates and alarms on doors to the back yard.
I have a close friend who is a pool contractor and I asked him that very question a few years back. He said the City/County does not require them in most typical backyard tract type homes. Helpful yes but not required, just as pool covers are not required. Normally the realtors are all wet but I have to agree with him/her on that one.