Buy FLIR Cameras

[John McKenna]

Buy FLIR Infrared Cameras Here

[John Snell]

John,

Frankly, John, I'm very surprised to see you are selling the Extech i5 on your sight. While it is the perfect camera for some applications, it is NOT, in any fashion, suitable for buildings work. I'd hope, as someone who is now considered a "go to" in the industry for information, that you would make that clear on your site.

In my opinion, if we condone inadequate work being done, whether by unqualified people or people using inappropriate cameras, it will be the undoing of all of us.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org

[Kevin A. Richardson]

John,

Frankly, John, I'm suprised to see you making the above statement. I don't believe providing a link to John's online store or selling the i5 is "condoning" inadequate work or using an inappropriate camera. Your statement (it will be the undoing of us all) seems rooted in self-centered fear. I would suggest writting a letter to FLIR if you feel that strongly about the camera.

I can't find anything written by John that supports the use of the i5 for Building Applications. Actually, he was the first person here to question weather or not it is "suited" for Building Applications.

I'm really amazed at your vast knowledge in Thermography and respect your level of experience. But, I would suspect with all of your knowledge and experience, you would see that "shooting the messanger" per say is not the right approach. IMHO.

__________________________________________________ _____________

To the other John,

Keep up the good work!

Kevin

[John McKenna]

The i5 is functional but limited in it's benefit for the home inspector.
I recommend buying something with better resolution.

At the same time, I have taken the i5 onsite, on some home inspections,
and found moisture issues, electrical hot spots, missing insulation, etc...
So I cannot say the i5 is NOT functional, even though I would recommend
a better resolution, if you can afford it.

I tried to create some test where the BCAM would see a moisture spot,
but the i5 could not. I could not do it. The i5 found the same things
the bcam found, no matter what I tried.

It is hard for me to admit this, because I had made up my mind that
the i5 would not work... but it did, to the degree that I tested it.
(my test should not be considered the final word my any means).

I still like my bcam much better, but can honestly say the i5
is functional to the degree I tested it. I would not recommend it
for EIFS, Roof Scans, etc... but it does have some limited benefit
within the home inspection.

I use a $500 dual function moisture meter now, but at one time I found
a lot of moisture issues with a $29 contact moisture meter. I would never
go back, but the low cost meter did have some limited benefits in time past.

I know John S. is concerned that inspectors will go out now and think they
are finding defects, when indeed they are still blind by using the i5, and
thus end up hurting themselves. That concern is very real and I can
appreciate it. But... I would not say they are 100% blind to all IR issues.

As they saying goes... let the buyer beware... you get what you pay
for, and in this case it is still true. I hope I do not appear to be causing
the destruction of the HI industry by this opinion.

[Kevin A. Richardson]

John M.,

I don't think the "HI Sky" is falling just yet I used a BCAM for over a year then switched to a FLIR T400, and would not want to go back to the lower resolution. I'm sure once I graduate to the 640x480 realm, I will have convinced myself that I could not go back to the 320x240. It's never ending for us "Gadget Guys."

Kevin

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by krichardson

John M.,

I don't think the "HI Sky" is falling just yet

Kevin

Whew...! I have enough to worry about...

[John Snell]

I appreciate the discussion. I stick by my point, made in the hope of stimulating discussion. I'm not suggesting John is advertising the i5 for buildings but the fact is the copy on his website clearly suggests it can be used for same.

By the way, I have regularly communicated these concerns to many in the industry. I'm not operating under any illusions that I can turn the tide of this great ship, but I will continue to speak my mind based on my experience: the i5 is a really good instrument for some applications and this does not include regular or routine buildings work. I'm less concerned about what you can see and more concerned about what you cannot see and will be missed.

Anyone who jumps in with this camera in order to save a thousand or two thousand bucks has either been sold a bill of goods or lacks common sense. Sorry to be so blunt but I believe I owe this to my NACHI customer and any potential future customers. Please save your money a bit longer or borrow a little more and buy a system that will actually serve the needs of your customers.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org

[Charley L. Bottger]

I am going to jump in on this one myself and basically agree with both sides of this discussion every camera has its limitations it should not be about the camera but about the training. It is an absolute must that one receive the proper training for the camera one has purchased you must know your camera limitation and not try to exceed what the camera has the ability to perform. That is where most new guys will get in trouble buy the bottom of the line camera and want to scan the world with it.

Same with moisture meters each one has its limitation. Just this week I had a moisture problem with a flat roof, stains every where my BX 320 only detected moisture in one small area of the ceiling nothing in the wall no Delta T exterior wall was brick veneer in a shaded area 10:00 AM in morning my Surveymaster detected moisture only in the same area of the ceiling as the BX320 did. I broke out my Tramex deep penetrating and used it on the walls pegged it out at 100%. My gut told me I had a problem I just had to find it I am not the kind of inspector that states I think there is a problem and refer it to someone else I want to know what the problem is and I will search till I find the reason. Nothing replaces a good set of eyes and knowing the limitations of your test equipment.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by cbottger

I am going to jump in on this one myself and basically agree with both sides of this discussion every camera has its limitations it should not be about the camera but about the training. It is an absolute must that one receive the proper training for the camera one has purchased you must know your camera limitation and not try to exceed what the camera has the ability to perform. That is where most new guys will get in trouble buy the bottom of the line camera and want to scan the world with it.

Same with moisture meters each one has its limitation. Just this week I had a moisture problem with a flat roof, stains every where my BX 320 only detected moisture in one small area of the ceiling nothing in the wall no Delta T exterior wall was brick veneer in a shaded area 10:00 AM in morning my Surveymaster detected moisture only in the same area of the ceiling as the BX320 did. I broke out my Tramex deep penetrating and used it on the walls pegged it out at 100%. My gut told me I had a problem I just had to find it I am not the kind of inspector that states I think there is a problem and refer it to someone else I want to know what the problem is and I will search till I find the reason. Nothing replaces a good set of eyes and knowing the limitations of your test equipment.

Good post Charley.

[Henry Valenzano, CMI]

G-Wiz John. I know i havent been around much lately. But when i called you the other evening for info I thought you would at least remember me. By the way the Quick-report program for Flir is garbage. I found a program called Dual - View. that does the job and is 1/8th the price.

[John McKenna]

Sorry, when you called Hank, I was killing allegators.

Quick view from FLIR is free. You can download it off the internet.
I never use it.

[gporter]

Originally Posted by John Snell

John,

Frankly, John, I'm very surprised to see you are selling the Extech i5 on your sight. While it is the perfect camera for some applications, it is NOT, in any fashion, suitable for buildings work. I'd hope, as someone who is now considered a "go to" in the industry for information, that you would make that clear on your site.

In my opinion, if we condone inadequate work being done, whether by unqualified people or people using inappropriate cameras, it will be the undoing of all of us.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org

Do not ever come on here and try to sell your **** and put down John who is a dues paying and your not.

[John Snell]

Originally Posted by gporter

Do not ever come on here and try to sell your **** and put down John who is a dues paying and your not.

My intent is to provide accurate information grounded in my 25 years in the industry. While I am not a dues paying NACHI member, I don't think anyone who knows me or my work will debate the fact that I've always done the best I know how to be a professional, including devoting thousands of hours to standards writing, conferences, public messageboards, etc.

If I've given you the impression that I'm only here to "see my ****," clearly I've done a poor job of posting information that I felt would (1) save a HI from making a $3000 mistake and (2) probably end up causing problems for all of us due to poor results. The problem is not John or the i5 camera; it is the fact that no one is asking "Why is the King not wearing any clothes?"

The two attached images were taken at about 15 feet; the fixed focus is not optimized for this distance and so image quality is unacceptably low. At 3-5 feet, the camera can work very well.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org