EPHIS proplem or not?

[lolsen]

First scan on an EPHIS house. Found a hot area on the side of the house where the house and garage meet. Picture was taken on the west side of the house about 1.5 hrs after sundown. Temp in the day was about 10C and it is now 1C. 7kph wind (but no wind in this corner). 20% moisture all the way up and 14% on the rest of the house. Tested with surveymaster meter, no probing. House is 7 years old.

Your comments Please.




Thanks
Lawrence Olsen

[Phil Henderson]

Originally Posted by lolsen

First scan on an EPHIS house. Found a hot area on the side of the house where the house and garage meet. Picture was taken on the west side of the house about 1.5 hrs after sundown. Temp in the day was about 10C and it is now 1C. 7kph wind (but no wind in this corner). 20% moisture all the way up and 14% on the rest of the house. Tested with surveymaster meter, no probing. House is 7 years old.

Your comments Please.

Attachment 19678
Attachment 19679

Thanks
Lawrence Olsen

Hi Lawerence,

I think I can help you with this one. I'm EDI certified in EIFS systems and also infrared trained.

I'm assuming this is a barrier system rather than a drainage system. It appears to be also a soft coat. There are specific details that are required for the system to function as a water barrier system. The ones that I can see in your photo should include a kick out flashing where the lower gutter intersects the wall. I don't see one there. If you are getting moisture readings below that gutter area (the heated area of your infared image) then the water is getting behind the EIFS system ( a problem) . If moisture probe readings are above 20% then destructive testing is required that involve removing the EIFS system.

The infared image is showing a warmer surface which is likely due the heated water since the wall faces west. If you are not EIFS certified I would be careful about getting to involved with this home and would defer to an expert or EIFS restoration company. A simple matter of leaving out a kickout flashing would mean there may be other shortcuts in the installation.

Hope that helps.

Phil Henderson, CMI

Certified Master Inspector
EDI Certified EIFS Inspector
ICC Certified Code Inspector
Infrared Certified

[phenderson]

A couple more things..... the survey master meter only goes about 3/4 inch below the surface and will not give a complete reading on the wall system condition. A Tramex Wet Wall detector is standard EIFS equipment for non destructive test results and can show results to 3-4 inches. The only way to know for sure is to use an EIFS probe to determing the true level of moisture all the way back to the substrate. Again, moisture reading above the 20% level on a probe test will determine the level of destructive testing and repair work.

Another method is the use of an SRT (Structuaral Resistance Tester) which will show the level of damage to the substrate by impact testing and more clearly define the damage area.

[David P. Valley]

If that may be water penetration, then what did the IR image look like from the inside of this same wall?

You should have detected something if moisture existed.

[phenderson]

True. If you have infrared you should always check every angle . It may not show up on the interior wall because the substrate (usually OSB) is not allowing the water to fully penetrate the framing and insulation. I've scanned many EIFS systems from the inside and only detected damage with the IR if it is heavily water damaged or totally saturated.

[phenderson]

Lawrence,

A second look at your IR image shows visible wall framing. If this is a true EIFS system the insulation board would not allow a thermal transfer from the framing to the wall surface. The best way to determine is to tap the wall ....if a hollow sound It's EIFS ....if a hard sound it's traditional stucco.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by phenderson

Lawrence,

A second look at your IR image shows visible wall framing. If this is a true EIFS system the insulation board would not allow a thermal transfer from the framing to the wall surface. The best way to determine is to tap the wall ....if a hollow sound It's EIFS ....if a hard sound it's traditional stucco.

Good point...

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by phenderson

Lawrence,

A second look at your IR image shows visible wall framing. If this is a true EIFS system the insulation board would not allow a thermal transfer from the framing to the wall surface. The best way to determine is to tap the wall ....if a hollow sound It's EIFS ....if a hard sound it's traditional stucco.

Not true in every instance. I've had severly damaged or absent substrate (WDI or rot) on stucco, sound exactly like EIFS or the the EIFS trim on stucco jobs. 2-3-4 other inspectors had misidentified the exterior cladding.

Removal of coverplate(s), light fixture(s), foundation termination examination and lack of expansion or control joints is a more conclusive way to identify EIFS.

There's more than one way to skin a cat

[Carl A. Brown]

The stucco and EIFS should never be done without the kickout diverters in place.

No cladding should be without kickouts!

With that being said it is the roofers job to install that flashing. They are the ones who leave them out.

For those who have not seen the best kickout on the market! imo

http://www.dryflekt.com/

[David A. Andersen]

Lawrence, you need to give us more information when you post these pictures.

What's on the inside of the garage and on the inside of the house?
From the looks of this scan it does not look like moisture. Even though the hot spot originates/terminates at the eve, the pattern is too symmetrical within the stud bays.

If you use a different palette, we would likely see the studs vary in temperature as you move away from the corner.
Do you thermally tune your camera or manipulate the scan with your software? You need to focus on the anomaly not the entire picture frame. Running your software or camera in the automatic mode does not focus on the source. You may miss something by doing this.

You have a high temperature gradient in the corner at the top of the garage wall at the ceiling. What's this heat source? It does not look like solar loading.

I think that I actually see some reflection from the house wall onto the garage wall. Moisture doesn't usually reflect this much.

What's the minimum and maximum weather conditions on record for that day?
10°C/1°C.

Your scan is showing 15°C, 1 1/2 hours after sundown (the temperature was also transitional prior to sundown) with a 7 km air flow. You're not likely to retain this much heat from moisture.

I would be looking elsewhere.

[phenderson]

Although we are having some fun trying to help him with limited information he needs to know the only true way to determine if this is actually a moisture problem in the EIFS system is to use a moisture meter with an EIFS probe. You can buy one for the Protimeter for about $100 . Our infrared cameras are great for surveys of large surfaces but are not moisture conclusive. The non -invasive moisture meter he is using is limited in depth reading ability. The meter can also be affected by any wire mesh in the system if it's traditional stucco and give false readings. Either way you go.....the different technologies can converge to give you a broader picture of the problem. EIFS and other sidings are challenging when moisture is involved....and good inspectors come from challenging circumstances.

[David A. Andersen]

Yup!

[lolsen]

Thanks for your help. I am away from high speed internet and the dial up is driving me nuts. I will be back in the office on Sunday night and will answer more questions then because all my info is there.

It does look like I should find a EPHIS guy here to look at it and tag along to learn.

I did not find anything on the inside of the house to indicate a problem.

Thanks
Lawrence

Your info is always appreciated.

[Barry Adair]

Unless I missed something north of the border the product is commonly referred to as EIFS
Exterior Insulation Finishing System

EPHIS
1.ephis
Word usually used to call someone an idiot
When he made a stupid statement his older cousin called him an ephis



I'd hate to see this used in a report may discredit any comments you may have about the walls or product.

Hope this helps

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

One other quick comment. With the high liability on EIFS - if you're not trained and certified by someone like EDI or AWCI in EIFS, you really need to identify the product and refer it to a qualified EIFS specialist.

Maybe you're just doing the test for your own benefit, but anyone thats not EIFS qualified trying to give advice to customers on whats wrong or right in an EIFS system is a walking / talking lawsuit waiting to happen.