Extech I5

[Jonathan T. Hittle]

OK, this question has probably been asked before but would anyone recommend the Extech I5 for someone just learning thermography? If not, what would you recommend? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am just trying to take classes and learn. I am not far enough into it to "use" it in my inspection business. Thanks ahead of time for everyone's help

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jhittle

OK, this question has probably been asked before but would anyone recommend the Extech I5 for someone just learning thermography? If not, what would you recommend? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am just trying to take classes and learn. I am not far enough into it to "use" it in my inspection business. Thanks ahead of time for everyone's help

Hi Jonathan,

You are correct, asked and answered.

My advice is to simply purchase the best camera you can afford now, regardless if you feel that it's too much camera for your purposes. The i5 is not it. Also get properly trained ITC

[John McKenna]

Stay with a resolution that is at least 120x120. Anything less will not work like you
need it to for home inspection purposes. Contact me for the lowest price FLUKE
in the United States (I do not sell IR cameras but can help you get the lowest price).

[mruffing]

I first tried the Extech I5 and sent it back. I took the deal that John spoke of and it was a SUPER deal. I have researched for months. The FLUKE is a great camera also don't forget his training. Best way to get started in Thermal Imaging. FLUKE has online web cast "FREE" it will show what there cameras can do. "you don't need a camera to attented.

[OJ Utter]

Johnathan-
Here are some i5 images so you know what they look like.


I would consider this camera for use by an HVAC contractor or building contractor to check up on their work. I did have a public power district buy 3 last fall though for the guys to use to check out connections while in a bucket truck after they fix something. So it isn't that they won't work just not the greatest for it.

I would by one of these before I spent any money on a FLUKE Camera of any kind though. At least this camera has the ability to input the background temperature and change the emissivity. No offense John but I wouldn't buy a TiR for any price but that is just me. I say that not as a sales person but as a professional thermographer.

I can help you with purchasing an i5 or I have a i40 that I've used as a demo model for 6 months. It still has 6 months+ on the warranty (but I don't think you will need to ever use the warranty even if it was for a full year). I can sell it to you for $4425. Here are some images from it.

i

Plus you can take the itc online course to learn how to use the camera for free.

OJ Utter
Level 3 itc Thermographer
402-534-3513
www.utterprecision.com

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by OJ Utter

Johnathan-
Here are some i5 images so you know what they look like.


I would consider this camera for use by an HVAC contractor or building contractor to check up on their work. I did have a public power district buy 3 last fall though for the guys to use to check out connections while in a bucket truck after they fix something. So it isn't that they won't work just not the greatest for it.

I would by one of these before I spent any money on a FLUKE Camera of any kind though. At least this camera has the ability to input the background temperature and change the emissivity. No offense John but I wouldn't buy a TiR for any price but that is just me. I say that not as a sales person but as a professional thermographer.

I can help you with purchasing an i5 or I have a i40 that I've used as a demo model for 6 months. It still has 6 months+ on the warranty (but I don't think you will need to ever use the warranty even if it was for a full year). I can sell it to you for $4425. Here are some images from it.

i

Plus you can take the itc online course to learn how to use the camera for free.

OJ Utter
Level 3 itc Thermographer
402-534-3513
www.utterprecision.com

I think a person needs more than a free online course to use the camera.
I am sure you agree. FLUKE offers the same kind of free courses as well,
and even more types of free training at their web site.

Regarding the FLUKE vs the FLIR, I think they are both fine cameras.

The FLUKE TiR has

- more resolution than the FLIR i40
- 2 yr warranty instead of the FLIR one year warranty
- better fussion technology to blend pictures
- larger screen to see details
- several hundred dollars less (new) than even the used price you offer

(and... most home inspectors have no need to adjust the emissivity
as it does not change the image view, but only a slight change in
the spot temp read out , per FLIR)

Best of luck in all you do.

[William J. Decker]

I tend to agree. The Extech is a great "training" camera, but of little use for paid work.

Fluke has a small advantage over FlIR (as regards to price / performance), but seeing how this market is so competative, that could change.

As always, do your own due dilligence.

And (like me) if you are on the "bleeding edge", don't take it too hard if you buy a camera, and then find out, 4 months later, that there is a better performing camera that can be had for 1 to 2 thousand less expensive.

I, regularly, go to a local store (I know a guy ) and test each model.

Hope this helps;

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by wdecker

camera that can be had for 1 to 2 thousand less expensive.

Murphy's Law...

[OJ Utter]

You don't have to adjust the emissivity until you get into a situation where you are looking at something electrical in the house like the one that Charley from OK showed on the forum last week. Then you want to have the ability and should understand what that is and the effects it can have. While HI may not need emissivity for 80-90% of the thermography they do not having it as even as an option on the camera is generally a situation for a problem in situations that could result in a fatal mistake.

Sort of like flying an airplane into instrument conditions without the necessary instruments. If enough of that happens even in small planes that only kills the individuals in the plane it will eventually effect all of us. Or if you want to look at it another way buying a home on an interest rate that you eventually can't afford only hurts the whole industry or maybe even the entire country eventually if it is done enough time.

The size of the FLUKE cameras (which at the end of the day will come into play),the lack of a carrying holster, the battery life issues, the size of the files, the inaccuracy in the temperature measurements, and the lack of a light for the digital images easily out weigh a couple hundred dollars for the difference in the cameras.

And I totally agree that they need more than a free online course to use the camera. But if you are going to buy a temperature measurement camera that really can't measure temperature accurately you might as well just shoot from the hip the entire way. If you want to considered a professional then professional tools and professional training is a must.

OJ Utter
Level 3 itc Thermographer
www.utterprecision.com

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

And I totally agree that they need more than a free online course to use the camera. But if you are going to buy a temperature measurement camera that really can't measure temperature accurately you might as well just shoot from the hip the entire way. If you want to considered a professional then professional tools and professional training is a must.

Agreed!!

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

(and... most home inspectors have no need to adjust the emissivity
as it does not change the image view, but only a slight change in
the spot temp read out , per FLIR)

John, I'm surprised you would make a statement like this. BTW The temp difference is huge, not slight.

[Charley L. Bottger]

I see it time in and time out on this BB the question is generally the same (what camera do you recommend) I guarantee you will not be satisfied if you take this business serious by buying a bottom of the line camera beg and borrow if necessary all of the money it takes to buy a better camera the first time out of the gates. The same with training if your trainer is not a level 3 and been around the block a time or two your not getting the best training available. That is my opinion for what it is worth.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by OJ Utter

While HI may not need emissivity for 80-90% of the thermography they do not having it as even as an option on the camera is generally a situation for a problem in situations that could result in a fatal mistake.

Please tell us a condition where the FLUKE cameras use would
cause a "fatal mistake" for the home inspector. Home inspectors
have been using infrared thermometers for years and they are
just as accurate as the FLUKE. Please don't exaggerate with the
words "fatal."

I doubt most inspector with an IR camera do exact scientific
adjustments for a temperature measurement that would
stand up in court. As I said, they have been using IR
thermometers for years (and they have no emissivity setting)
without the "fatal" mistakes.

IR thermometers show close "apparent" temperatures that
are within 1-2% most of the time and are used by thousands
everyday.

The size of the FLUKE cameras (which at the end of the day will come into play),the lack of a carrying holster, the battery life issues, the size of the files, the inaccuracy in the temperature measurements, and the lack of a light for the digital images easily out weigh a couple hundred dollars for the difference in the cameras.

The difference in price is well over a $1000.00 (the ones I can get).
The battery life works fine for the HI needs. The size of the
viewer is a plus for those who want to see more details. The
resolution is better. The tiny light on the FLIR is not worth a
$1000.00.... the warranty is twice as long on FLUKE. So in
many ways the FLUKE is better for some in the home inspection
field. The fussion picture is better by far.

And I totally agree that they need more than a free online course to use the camera. But if you are going to buy a temperature measurement camera that really can't measure temperature accurately you might as well just shoot from the hip the entire way. If you want to considered a professional then professional tools and professional training is a must.

OJ Utter
Level 3 itc Thermographer
www.utterprecision.com

Thanks for your reply. Most of the time the home inspector looks at the
pattern and not the temperature. If the temperature is needed, then
an IR thermometer or a FLUKE camera works well within the tolerance
levels of a home inspection. Those who claim to do exact spot
temperature measurements that will stand up to expert review need to
be able to tell me all the variables they have verified out in the field and
why it is FATAL not to do so.

How do Master Electricians measure hot breakers without an IR camera?
Are they all doing FATAL measurements because they do not own a
FLIR IR camera? The same question would apply to HVAC specialist as well.

[Dale Duffy]

John stated:

Thanks for your reply. Most of the time the home inspector looks at the
pattern and not the temperature. If the temperature is needed, then
an IR thermometer or a FLUKE camera works well within the tolerance
levels of a home inspection. Those who claim to do exact spot
temperature that will stand up to expert review need to be able to
tell me all the variables they have verified out in the field and why it
is FATAL not to do so.

John, last week Jason Kaylor was kind enough to come to one of my inspections with the Fluke TiR1 and a FLIR, I do not remember the model of the FLIR (I40 maybe?) but it was more expensive than the Fluke, in my opinion, and another inspector who was with me both thought the Fluke was a better Cam for what we would be using them for "Home Inspections"....I particularly liked the Fluke screen having the screen wider horizontally compared to the FLIR having the same size screen but as you know wider vertically. Personally I thought the resolution of the Fluke was better than the FLIR also, but I'm getting old, so it could be an eye issue on my part. The fusion technology was impressive also.

So in the near future, I think I would go with the TIR1 over the FLIR (cannot remember the model) but it was about $7400 I think JJ said compared to the Fluke being considerably lower in price.

Anyway....I liked the Fluke better for what we use them for.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by dduffy

Anyway....I liked the Fluke better for what we use them for.

That is the key.

Each inspector needs to buy the camera for his needs.
There is no shame in buying a lower cost camera, if it
serves your needs. (not the i5... smile)

I went head to head with a Level III thermographer who
had no background in construction, and I found more
defects with my BCAM, than he could with his camera
with twice the resolution. He did not know what to
look for and I did. I had to teach him what certain
defects look like and why. He was very humble to
receive my instructions.

He was an expert in his field of use but not in construction.
In his field of use, I could not compete at all.