Extech I5

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

How about this......afford what you can reasonably buy at the time......upgrade, when possible, to a point that you are satisfied for what the product does for you.

The main thing is that you know what your a looking at...........its more important to have a keen background in building science not necessarily the best tools without the brains.

warm regards
Jeff

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I have the Fluke TIR. If there is something that I'm questioning, I take a few pictures of it and make changes to the emissivity and anything else with the Fluke software. I was shown and told that every option that is on the TIR1 camera can be found in the software. So for those <10% of items that I would likely question, all I have to do is go back to the office to get a better understanding.

Please note that I've only had my IR camera for less than a year and use it only for home inspections.

Note: I like the Fluke. There are only two things that I liked about the Flir that Fluke doesn't have - the smaller size and the laser pointer. Besides that, I think the Fluke TIR camera is a fine IR camera and I wouldn't pick anything better than the Fluke TIR1 for doing home inspections.

Good points.

And, if a lug nut in an electrical panel is hot, then the wires gets hot
as well. The rubber on the wire has high emissivity, even if the
metal lug does not (in some cases). It is not hard to see that
a hot spot needs repair.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

How about this......afford what you can reasonably buy at the time......upgrade, when possible, to a point that you are satisfied for what the product does for you.

The main thing is that you know what your a looking at...........its more important to have a keen background in building science not necessarily the best tools without the brains.

warm regards
Jeff

Exactly.

Regarding electrical home inspectors....
If I had to choose between a master electrician with a FLUKE TiR
and a novice Level III guy with a $50,000 FLIR... I would choose the
master electrician with the FLUKE.

Background knowledge makes the inspector. BTW... I have met Level III
guys who said they could not do a home inspection. In fact, most of
them cannot. Most Level III guys come out of other fields of use.

I use a FLIR... so I am not bad mouthing them.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Someone please show us ONE example of someone who did not
own a FLIR camera, and documented an electrical hot spot with
other methods, as a home inspector... and they made a FATAL
mistake.

Please, just one example.

We need to help this guy out, he cannot find one.

John don't you think you have carried this on long enough we would all be better served if you just drop it. We are all big boys don't need a spoke person

[Jonathan T. Hittle]

Thank you for all of your help. Even listening to you guys argue (HA HA) has shed some light on my situation. I needed to hear all of the different opinions. So the disagreements were very helpful to me. I understand the education is the key. I was just trying to keep myself from spending too little to get by then regreting it later. This help is 1 more reason to be a NACHI member.

Thanks again

[OJ Utter]

Here is the article that discusses the real point I was trying to make. http://utterprecision.com/download/T...onceptions.pdf
If you read the original point, I never said HI's WERE OR ARE out making FATAL mistakes, I said they could if they didn't understand or couldn't adjust for it. Enough said.
I am glad this all helped Johnathan. If you would like to get a FLIR sometime; let me know. I would be honored to help. If you want a FLUKE you better call Mr. McKenna.

Godspeed!
OJ Utter
Level 3 itc Thermographer
www.utterprecision.com

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by cbottger

John don't you think you have carried this on long enough we would all be better served if you just drop it. We are all big boys don't need a spoke person

We don't need someone to censor members. It seems others
enjoyed the discussion.

Thank you for all of your help. Even listening to you guys argue (HA HA) has shed some light on my situation. I needed to hear all of the different opinions. So the disagreements were very helpful to me. I understand the education is the key. I was just trying to keep myself from spending too little to get by then regreting it later. This help is 1 more reason to be a NACHI member.

Thanks again

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by OJ Utter

Here is the article that discusses the real point I was trying to make. http://utterprecision.com/download/T...onceptions.pdf
If you read the original point, I never said HI's WERE OR ARE out making FATAL mistakes, I said they could if they didn't understand or couldn't adjust for it. Enough said.
I am glad this all helped Johnathan. If you would like to get a FLIR sometime; let me know. I would be honored to help. If you want a FLUKE you better call Mr. McKenna.

Godspeed!
OJ Utter
Level 3 itc Thermographer
www.utterprecision.com

What you did say was this...

not having it as even as an option on the camera is generally a situation for a problem in situations that could result in a fatal mistake.

So far you have failed to show ONE example where a home inspector
using a FLUKE camera could possibly make a FATAL mistake, or
anyone else for that matter (ie... master electrician)

BTW... I do not sell cameras.

[William Warner]

I'm sorry John, but relying on patterns alone without accurate temperature measurement in home inspections will get one in trouble. It's that <10% of the time that can cause one improperly trained in IR for residential use that will cause the most grief in my opinion.

With pattern recognition alone, can you tell me definitively if this is a problem or not...

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

We don't need someone to censor members. It seems others
enjoyed the discussion.

Back up John your not holding a discussion you are rattling sabers

[OJ Utter]

Not quite sure why I am still beating a dead horse that is obviously been turned into glue and spread out on my little kids art project but here goes.


What we are looking at is a large piece of copper with a flat piece of aluminum on top and a soldering iron heating it up. And as we all know these are the materials use for electrical connections like bus bars that I was talking about in Charley's post at the beginning. And you can see by the difference emissivity settings makes, we can see that the severity can be considered more immediate in picture 2 and even picture 3 than picture 1. And as I noted I have found connections that exceeded the 200-250 mark that failed and burnt up the wire within 3 days of scanning it, that is what I am talking about what could be a potentially fatal mistake. And as William said this is a <10% situation that can cause grief. Hopefully though, since we have covered this subject it for sure won't happen to someone.

I also agree with Kevin that you generally have a higher emissivity object near to use but not always. If you have a TiR and have found a way to work around that missing issue great. It is always better to have the ability to do analysis on a situation in the field where you can do more things like add more load to the circuit, etc....

OK. At this point I will just agree to disagree on this subject cuz another bottle of glue just rolled off this post. Clank..Clank!

OJ

[Jason Kaylor]

You two would really benefit from reading a book by Dale Carneige called: How to Win Friends and Influence People. It has nothing to do with sales and yet, I wouldn’t be half the salesman I am, without it.

OJ, I hope you realize that you are insulting every single person that has purchased or is considering purchasing a Fluke camera? Fluke is the probably THE most trusted name in test and measurement. I would love to see you approach the electrical or HVAC/R communities and try to convince those guys that Fluke is junk.

John, you are doing the same with people who have purchased FLIR cameras.

I can’t figure out why the both of you deny that you are salesmen? You are both selling cameras. Embrace it, you are salesmen. Personally I would be less inclined to trust someone who says they are not a salesman (while trying to sell me something), than someone who is in sales and loves it. I get more calls about the marketing aspects of IR (which is sales) than I do about the cameras themselves. Most of those calls are from people just like those in this forum. These people are also salesmen, looking for a way to increase revenue through sales of their home inspection and/or IR business.

Ultimately we could end the camera argument with either of these:

http://www.aikencolon.com/Electrophysics-Hot-Shot-HD-B-Infrared-Thermal-Imager-Camera_p_1833.html

http://www.aikencolon.com/Electrophysics-Hot-Shot-HD-XT-Infrared-Thermal-Imager-Camera_p_1835.html

Please save your comments about the price. These blow the high-end FLIR cameras away – and for 50% of the price.

I make money selling Fluke, FLIR and ElectroPhysics thermal imagers. I make money helping business owners expand their ability to generate and maintain work. I use thermal imagers, blower doors and training to do that.

I am a salesman…. and I love it.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by OJ Utter

Not quite sure why I am still beating a dead horse that is obviously been turned into glue and spread out on my little kids art project but here goes.


What we are looking at is a large piece of copper with a flat piece of aluminum on top and a soldering iron heating it up. And as we all know these are the materials use for electrical connections like bus bars that I was talking about in Charley's post at the beginning. And you can see by the difference emissivity settings makes, we can see that the severity can be considered more immediate in picture 2 and even picture 3 than picture 1. And as I noted I have found connections that exceeded the 200-250 mark that failed and burnt up the wire within 3 days of scanning it, that is what I am talking about what could be a potentially fatal mistake. And as William said this is a <10% situation that can cause grief. Hopefully though, since we have covered this subject it for sure won't happen to someone.

I also agree with Kevin that you generally have a higher emissivity object near to use but not always. If you have a TiR and have found a way to work around that missing issue great. It is always better to have the ability to do analysis on a situation in the field where you can do more things like add more load to the circuit, etc....

OK. At this point I will just agree to disagree on this subject cuz another bottle of glue just rolled off this post. Clank..Clank!

OJ

You obviously did this with a different camera, but as a technicality the TiR's and B40-B60 are dead in the water for this one anyway. The middle pic is out of temp range for any of the units.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jkaylor

You two would really benefit from reading a book by Dale Carneige called: How to Win Friends and Influence People. It has nothing to do with sales and yet, I wouldn’t be half the salesman I am, without it.

OJ, I hope you realize that you are insulting every single person that has purchased or is considering purchasing a Fluke camera? Fluke is the probably THE most trusted name in test and measurement. I would love to see you approach the electrical or HVAC/R communities and try to convince those guys that Fluke is junk.

John, you are doing the same with people who have purchased FLIR cameras.

I can’t figure out why the both of you deny that you are salesmen? You are both selling cameras. Embrace it, you are salesmen. Personally I would be less inclined to trust someone who says they are not a salesman (while trying to sell me something), than someone who is in sales and loves it. I get more calls about the marketing aspects of IR (which is sales) than I do about the cameras themselves. Most of those calls are from people just like those in this forum. These people are also salesmen, looking for a way to increase revenue through sales of their home inspection and/or IR business.

Ultimately we could end the camera argument with either of these:

http://www.aikencolon.com/Electrophysics-Hot-Shot-HD-B-Infrared-Thermal-Imager-Camera_p_1833.html

http://www.aikencolon.com/Electrophysics-Hot-Shot-HD-XT-Infrared-Thermal-Imager-Camera_p_1835.html

Please save your comments about the price. These blow the high-end FLIR cameras away – and for 50% of the price.

I make money selling Fluke, FLIR and ElectroPhysics thermal imagers. I make money helping business owners expand their ability to generate and maintain work. I use thermal imagers, blower doors and training to do that.

I am a salesman…. and I love it.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

I am a salesman also have been providing service to the public since mobey dick was a minnow. I also own a copy of Dale C/s book along with a library of others just like it. Excellent reading more should follow suit it should be NACHI required reading to join this outfit.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by wwarner

I'm sorry John, but relying on patterns alone without accurate temperature measurement in home inspections will get one in trouble. It's that <10% of the time that can cause one improperly trained in IR for residential use that will cause the most grief in my opinion.

With pattern recognition alone, can you tell me definitively if this is a problem or not...

Attachment 26971

I never said to use pattern alone when doing electrical.
With a IR thermometer or FLUKE camera, one could
see the temperature of the conductors (they have good
emissivity)... and with an amp meter, one could judge
the load vs the heat to arrive at some conclusions.

Are you saying that only a FLIR camera could be used
to diagnose this issue in the picture you provide and
anyone that does not use the FLIR would be open to
a FATAL mistake.

How would a master electrician diagnose the issue
you provided in the picture? Would all master electricians
that do not own a FLIR be open to FATAL mistakes?

Please do not avoid my questions.