Flir B-50/60

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Went to a trade show put on by Flir yesterday. They had both Flir B-50 and B-60 present among many others.

The B-50 goes for $5,995 / The B-60 for $7,995

To be honest myself and many others could not see any significent difference of the view through the lens, on the screen, etc

The B-60 has 180 x 180 and 32,400 megapixels.

The B-50 has 140 x 140 and 19,600 megapixels.

Both look and feel identical. I think for a HI the B-50 would do the job.

[Steven S. Ramos]

Hi Dan-

I always recommend that you buy more camera than you think you need. You don't have to take my word for it just ask Andrew McDonald about his recent experience (about 5 months with a camera of similar specs) - he posts on this board from time to time.

I had a 160x120 camera and quickly realized that it was not enough resolution. I now have a Bx320 which is 320x240 and feel under-powered in some situations.

One of the considerations that is often overlooked as a home inspector is the time it takes to create a thermal scene that will allow you to find the anomaly (moisture, ect). The more resolution you have the less favorable an environment you need to "see" the issue. The more time you spend manipulating the environment (if you can) the less profitable your service will be.

Good luck with your new venture.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by sramos

One of the considerations that is often overlooked as a home inspector is the time it takes to create a thermal scene that will allow you to find the anomaly (moisture, ect). The more resolution you have the less favorable an environment you need to "see" the issue. The more time you spend manipulating the environment (if you can) the less profitable your service will be.

Good luck with your new venture.

Very good advice/observation.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Absolutely I started with the B-cam and was not satisfied moved to the BX-320 and there are times when I wished I had more resolution. Don't buy based on price invest the money and go with the resolution

[Peter W. Bennett]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Went to a trade show put on by Flir yesterday. They had both Flir B-50 and B-60 present among many others.

The B-50 goes for $5,995 / The B-60 for $7,995

To be honest myself and many others could not see any significent difference of the view through the lens, on the screen, etc

The B-60 has 180 x 180 and 32,400 megapixels.

The B-50 has 140 x 140 and 19,600 megapixels.

Both look and feel identical. I think for a HI the B-50 would do the job.

Don't kid yourself.
A 40% difference in pixels is huge.

[John Snell]

The difference in array size can be significant, especially when you are pushing up against the limits that any camera has. But if you are working well within those limits, as many in HI are often doing, then the difference is surprisingly small for much of our work.

See the attached slide (from my webinar on Buying an Infrared Camera) showing images taken with three popular size arrays; please note these were taken at different times so some variations is due to changing conditions rather than different arrays.

The bottom line for buildings work is can you easily resolve a 2" stud at the typical working distance. If you can, then you can probably use the camera, although some defects are smaller than that dimension!

Remember too that pixels and the field of view (FOV, or overall size of the image you see) are inter-related.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.learnnewsolutions.com/

[John Snell]

Let me try a larger attachment!
Thanks,
John

[David A. Andersen]

To be honest myself and many others could not see any significant difference of the view through the lens, on the screen, etc

This is a side by side test of a hot coffee cup.
The scan on the left you can see three flowers painted on the cup. You can not see them as well on the right.

Why would you need this in a Home Inspection?

But as John said, when you push the limits of the camera (temp, distance), that is where it will show up. Not by looking through two cameras viewfinders.

This is why it is important to know the limitations of the equipment you are using.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by sramos

Hi Dan-

I always recommend that you buy more camera than you think you need. You don't have to take my word for it just ask Andrew McDonald about his recent experience (about 5 months with a camera of similar specs) - he posts on this board from time to time.

I had a 160x120 camera and quickly realized that it was not enough resolution. I now have a Bx320 which is 320x240 and feel under-powered in some situations.

One of the considerations that is often overlooked as a home inspector is the time it takes to create a thermal scene that will allow you to find the anomaly (moisture, ect). The more resolution you have the less favorable an environment you need to "see" the issue. The more time you spend manipulating the environment (if you can) the less profitable your service will be.

Good luck with your new venture.

Good advice Steve!!

I just finished talking to Andrew and I have to correct you on the type of camera that he uses. He has a B360 not the BX320.

[Jason Kaylor]

IMO it comes more down to training with the camera and thermal sensitivity. When I go demo units I use a TI25 for building envelope diagnostics. It is not even truly designed for HI's or thermal envelopes in general. Thermal sensitivy of .1C - 100mk. Resolution at 160x120. I demo that unit because we have to cover both industrial and building envelope, and I prefer to just carry two units (Fluke and FLIR).

I also demo the Electrophysics HotShot HD-XT, which is probably the single best thermal imager on the market currently. Yes there are huge differences between the two units. But do I really need to see every little detail at, 640x 580 resolution, of the moisture intrusion or heat/air loss?

With proper training and a good blower door the TiR1 or the B60 are both great cameras for HI's.

The big advantage I can see in the higher end cameras is the speed in which you can do the inspections, and flat roofs. Both Fluke and FLIR make insanely good building application TIs in the higher end B series (200-400), and the Fluke TiR4 are about as good as it gets.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources - in progress

[David C. Macy]

I just had a Flir rep. go over some cameras with me at my home today.

I have it narrowed to the B50 ThermocamB2 and B200. The B200 is a nice camera for 10K.

Decisions, decisions

[Jason Kaylor]

Not to confuse you even more David, but the TiR2 has a lower thermal sensitivity and a lot higher resolution at 320x240 than the b200 (200x150). it still has the interchangable 10.5mm wide angle lens as an option as well, and is currently (until December 31st) $8995.00. You also get a 1 year longer warranty, and 100% free software. FLIR is a $1600 upgrade to a 2 year warranty, and a $3500 add on for their best software.

The nice feature with the b200 and the TiR2+ series is the ability to use interchangable optics. The TiR1 and B50-60 do not have that option. So it is a way to upgrade later on down the road, if you choose to, without the initial expense up front. The only negative to adding lenses later on is, both manufactures calibrate the units to the exact lens you purchase. So you have to send the camera back to the manufacture and have the unit calibrated to the exact lens you get, you lose the unit for a couple weeks.

If you decide to go with the bcam style, go with the b60. .08 thermal sensitivity (80mk on both the b60 and b200) and 180x180 resolution (more pixels than the b200). If you are willing to spend 10k on the b200 then $7995 should be in the budget for the B60.

For HI's it really comes down to thermal sensitivity and training.

You won't be disappointed with any of the cameras you or I listed from my experience. It's an expensive purchase and I know a tough one to finally decide.

Good luck,

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources

[David C. Macy]

Thanks Jason

I am just trying to do my homework and find the best camera for my needs. I will check out the camera you mentioned.

[David C. Macy]

Jason

Do you have the link for the TiR1. The one I pulled up is not showing the specs you mentioned.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dmacy

Jason

Do you have the link for the TiR1. The one I pulled up is not showing the specs you mentioned.

http://inspectortools.com/fluketir1....FRhhnAodulRyCw

click specifications

PDF version