FLIR BCAM SD vs. Fluke TiR

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by wdevries

Got the Bcam, scanned the house and just found some moisture in the ceiling, most likley from the ice damming that occurred this winter.
What an awsome tool, a weapon that will put me leagues ahead of a basic inspection. I had no idea the moisture made it that far into the soffits, just awsome.

William,

Was it moisture or moisture damage?

Can you share your IR pics?

[John Snell]

I recently finished up some ongoing work on a pretty severe ice dam backup issue. Given that we had ten feet of snow in Vermont this winter with fairly "mild" temperatures, it was not unexpected.

The two images show the warm (wet) framing from the outside and (on the next posting) the cold (wet due to evaporation) sheathing on the inside of the roof. It was right at freezing the morning I shot these just before sunrise.

In my experience moisture is NOT always this evident. A moisture meter (or two) to confirm is always a great idea.

These images are from our recent webinar, An Introduction to Infrared Thermography for Home Inspectors.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org

[John Snell]

The second image showing the sheathing from the attic, cold due to evaporative cooling on the wet surface as well as conductive loss to the cooler outside.

Having the right conditions is critical to doing good moisture work.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org

[Evan Cirelli]

Hi guys. I was reading your posts as I like to do from time to time. We have the Extech, Flir, and Fluke thermal imagers.

We can also help on the pricing. Just call in.

Here is a link to the new i5 for more information on it:
http://www.tequipment.net/ExtechI5.html

We will also have home inspector kits with the i5 in it on the site later today. We have demo units to send out on the i5 as well as other units!

We are here to help and beleive we are second to none with pricing, service, and knowledge.

Thanks
Evan Cirelli

evan@tequipment.net

[John Snell]

"We will also have home inspector kits with the i5 in it on the site later today. We have demo units to send out on the i5 as well as other units! "

I remain unconvinced that this system will do what we need it to when inspecting buildings. The attached photo shows three larger arrays that can work. The question remains, "will the 80x80 do the job?"

The spatial resolution spec suggests an 80x80 array with this given FOV is barely adequate, if that, to resolve framing at typical distances used. The thermal resolution of the i5, at least according to spec of 100mK, should be sufficient. (BTW, I have no doubt the i5 will be useful for much of the PdM work that is being done with infrared.)

The one image posted on your link of a house is completely inadequate to assess the capabilities. I look forward to seeing more images and/or using the system so I can better evaluate it. AND, I'm willing to be proven wrong! I just don't want folks to "jump" and then realize they made a mistake, all to save a few grand.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org

[David A. Andersen]

I remain unconvinced that this system will do what we need it to when inspecting buildings.

I just don't want folks to "jump" and then realize they made a mistake, all to save a few grand.

Very good advise to consider!
"What you plan to use the camera for" should always be the prime consideration. You can get a bigger camera and just waste money (and still be safe) but you can't get a little camera and try to use it for what it is not designed for!

It is not about the camera, it's about the HI's use.
Like home inspections, price is not a selection factor unless it is between the same class cameras.

[Rick Bridges]

Hey guys..

If you're in the building inspection or home diagnostic business, you really can NOT be without this instrument. We carry Flir, Fluke, Extech, Palmer Wahl and can offer the best prices and service. Give us a call for additional info!

Here is a link to the Flir BCAM
http://www.tequipment.net/FlirBCAMSD.html

Thanks,
Rick Bridges

rbridges@tequipment.net

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by wdevries

Got the Bcam, scanned the house and just found some moisture in the ceiling, most likley from the ice damming that occurred this winter.
What an awsome tool, a weapon that will put me leagues ahead of a basic inspection. I had no idea the moisture made it that far into the soffits, just awsome.

How much more are you charging, now?

[John McKenna]

Good info on this thread.
Thanks to all.

[Steven S. Ramos]

When setting your prices you should look beyond what others are charging, especially with new technologies. When I started in IR there was no one person that I could call for this type of information - and that was a blessing in disguise. I first started with a number that I thought was a "no brainer" and I experimented with a defined test period and let my customer feedback tell what the perceived value was for the service. Over the last three years I have continued to raise my price because I have not really seen resistance from my customers who want that type of inspection.

Another consideration is to look at what other types of providers (other than home inspectors) - i.e. Thermographers charge. This is important because that is where your customer will have to go to get the information if you are not providing the service. Most thermographers are charging between $150 - $250 per hour with a two hour minimum.

I encourage each of you to shed the "herd" mentality and look at your customers for the answers to these types of questions. You will find that your customers are always willing to pay for information that they deem valuable and necessary.

[David A. Andersen]

There are only a handfull of IR users out there (looking at the big picture). Price for what the market will bear in your area.
Steve is correct. There are not enough of us out there to have to conform to any marketing price. Get out of that herd mentality.

Too many are in a big hurry to get the payback to meet the payoff!

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

I looked at both the Fluke TiR and the Flir SD-B Cam.

The Flir was lighter, a little smaller, had a little longer battery charge, and could easily flip open the handle to slam in a spare battery.

The Fluke had a better screen image and the PIP feature which I liked.

Both were easy to use.

They were within $200 of each other so price was not an issue.

I decided I liked some features on the Fluke better and went with it.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Very dissappointed in the i5. Just got a BCAM SD. Awesome. Screen is really big. Much more was revealed with the BCAM compared with the i5.

Found a leak yesterday. I wouldn't have seen it with my naked eyes. Discovered it by a quick scan of a basement ceiling. The leak was coming from an outside deck area. The deck has a flat roof under it, and under that is a section of the basement bedroom. As I learned from Mr. McKenna, I confirmed the dark, cool spot that was visible with the IR by using a moisture meter.

[bdoles2]

Originally Posted by dbowers

I decided I liked some features on the Fluke better and went with it.

I've had my Fluke for about 2 months and love it. I was worried about the battery life at first, but it has not been an issue "yet". In the coming weeks the jury will come out on it, I'm working on a commercial project with a local mold remediation group. It's on a 5 story, 81,000 sq. ft. office building. I worked it for 5.5 hours on last Thursday and the battery was holding on just fine. I'll have some longer days with it this week, so we'll see how it goes.

IR has opened many avenues that I wouldn't have had access to otherwise.



p.s. when the parking garage says "Height Distance 6'8", that may not hold true for exiting the garage.

[John Snell]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Very dissappointed in the i5.

I finally had a chance to put the Extech/FLIR i5 though it's paces. It will, I have not doubt, be a useful tool for simple electrical and mechanical work at 2-5 feet. Remembering that I paid $3000 for my first spot radiometer 25 years ago, I certainly look forward to watching the i5, and similar products, open up an important, new niche in the market.

In my opinion, however, after testing the system extensively, it is NOT suitable for routine buildings work. While thermal sensitivity appears adequate, the spatial resolution is simply not good enough, especially given that it is also a fixed focus system. Certainly it may be possible to use it on occasion, but I cannot imagine any skilled home inspector being happy with it for long.

I would encourage readers to explore other options with higher spatial resolution and operable focus as we know these systems, and there are many excellent choices at the moment, can give good results.

Thermally yours,

John Snell
ASNT NDT Thermal/Infrared Level III #48166
Snell Infrared
800-636-9820
802-229-9820
http://www.thesnellgroup.com
http://www.IRTalk.com
http://www.thermalsolutions.org