Fluke Tir & Tir1

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jevans

Where are we going with this thread? Just looking for clarity before I order a camera.

Re-posted with permission from another thread!


I will not be posting pictures or identifying the location of this inspection for personal/professional reasons. For the purposes of this post the building in question is a Toronto skyscraper.
A plumber was doing repairs Thursday night on a water pipe on one of the upper floors. He finished his work, tested the system and left for the night. When the office staff arrived this morning they were horrified that they found themselves walking on water!
Long story short, I was contracted to inspect and identify areas of concern with my IR Camera. Multiple floors were affected and I estimate that this is a 3 day max. Inspection.
The total cost to client for the IR Inspection,... it will just about pay for my camera!

My point gentlemen, if you are serious about IR Inspections show it. Start with Training ( I recommend ITC for the best IR training in the Industry) and not just Level 1, move to level 2 as fast as possible and don't expect to be doing this type of work with a BCAM-SD or a Fluke TiR1.
For inspectors contemplating the use of an IR camera in conjunction with a regular HI, purchase the best camera you CAN'T afford!! There is no such thing as too much camera for a home inspection but I assure you that there is such a thing as not enough camera for most other IR inspections! I'm allready thinking about upgrading my B360 to a P series.

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

For inspectors contemplating the use of an IR camera in conjunction with a regular HI, purchase the best camera you CAN'T afford!! There is no such thing as too much camera for a home inspection but I assure you that there is such a thing as not enough camera for most other IR inspections!

This quote is very true, not only because of the home inspection, but also because when people buy an infrared camera it opens up other type of work (IR inspections). Often I think home inspectors buy a camera to add to their home inspection business, which would be correct thinking. But really, with proper training, that person becomes a thermographer that knows how to do home inspections.

The one thing that should be clarified with that statement is that there are cameras that are too much camera for home inspections (building science thermography). There are many cameras out there that are made for specific applications. FLIR's GasFindIR series is an example.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Let's stay with the facts.

The FLUKE TiR has an accuracy for the spot temperature measurement of
+-2 % when measuring high emisssivty areas like the plastic and rubber
associated with residential breakers and romex wire.

This is the same level of tolerance that master electricians use all the time
when doing spot temperature measurements on residential electrical systems
when they use an IR thermometer.

John we can stay with the facts but they have to be right first. The TiR is ± 5 ° C or 5 % (whichever is greater).

All manufactures use this ± X amount or X% amount whichever is greater. What I would love to know is if you are looking at something that is 5C and it can be off by 5C does that mean it could be off by as much as 100%?

We are using the TiR in this example but all camera stats no matter the manufacture uses this same type of equation for temp accuracy.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[John Evans]

Mario,

Thanks for the input.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jevans

Mario,

Thanks for the input.

You are welcome John!

BTW Infrared Thermal Imaging (ITI) is a discipline and it can be addicting. I use myself to gauge the direction of the industry and here as an example.
I purchased the Flir BCAM-SD when I first started out. I did my level 1 course and used my camera with all home inspections. One year later the addiction aspect of IR kicked in. I have taken many application courses including my Level 2 training and purchased a better camera. I will also be doing my level 3 training next year. I'm also currently contemplating the purchase of an even better camera.

My advice John, Purchase something that will help you grow with IR in fields other than home inspections. It would be a shame if you could not profit from this technology and your investment doing for example; roof inspections

Good luck with your decision and in your new business venture!!!

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

My advice John, Purchase something that will help you grow with IR in fields other than home inspections. It would be a shame if you could not profit from this technology and your investment doing for example; roof inspections

That is probably the best advice I have seen in any of these IR threads, so far.

Don't get so wrapped up in the camera and get more wrapped up in the applications, training and the marketing to get those jobs. Once you purchase a camera and get the proper training, another world of opportunity opens up for you.

As an example of what Mario is referring to, we had a customer buy a sub $7k camera about 6 months ago that landed a commercial roof job that added up to 1.5mil sq ft. He got .05c a square! He ended up buying a 640x480, super high (low) thermal sensitivity camera from us for that job. The job more than paid for it.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jkaylor

John we can stay with the facts but they have to be right first. The TiR is ± 5 ° C or 5 % (whichever is greater).

All manufactures use this ± X amount or X% amount whichever is greater. What I would love to know is if you are looking at something that is 5C and it can be off by 5C does that mean it could be off by as much as 100%?

We are using the TiR in this example but all camera stats no matter the manufacture uses this same type of equation for temp accuracy.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

Read my post again....

The error ration when looking at high emissivity materials like the
plastic and rubber used in romex and breakers is only +- 2%.

If looking at a highly reflective materials, then naturally the error
ratio would increase.

You question about being 100% off will not be answered for
obvious reasons.

[John McKenna]

I went on a home inspection with a level III thermographer. He had a $30,000 camera.
All I had was a BCAM. I found more defects than he did.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

I think Flir makes a really good camera. Everybody at my Flir class commented on how much better the Flukes screen clarity was than their Flirs.

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by dbowers

I think Flir makes a really good camera. Everybody at my Flir class commented on how much better the Flukes screen clarity was than their Flirs.

Thats because you had your visor on backwards

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Read my post again....

The error ration when looking at high emissivity materials like the
plastic and rubber used in romex and breakers is only +- 2%.

If looking at a highly reflective materials, then naturally the error
ratio would increase.

You question about being 100% off will not be answered for
obvious reasons.

John that is a specification put out by Fluke. It is 5% on the TiR and 2% on the TiR1. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/sp...(FlukeProducts)

I would not think what you are looking at would change the accuracy.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

I went on a home inspection with a level III thermographer. He had a $30,000 camera.
All I had was a BCAM. I found more defects than he did.

In your camera or the house?

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jkaylor

John that is a specification put out by Fluke. It is 5% on the TiR and 2% on the TiR1. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/specifications.htm?cs_id=37790(FlukeProducts)&cate gory=THG(FlukeProducts)

I would not think what you are looking at would change the accuracy.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

No... the FLUKE TiR has a +- of 2% when looking at materials with
high emissivity (according to a FLUKE technician and Level III
thermographer).... because the TiR is preset for high emissivity
materials... which is what most non metal and non glass building
materials are made of.

The FLUKE TiR works well doing home inspections for many
home inspectors. I test both the FLUKE and FLIR in my classes.

Like I said, I found more building defects than a Level III thermographer,
while using a simple BCAM.

The camera does not make you an experienced inspector.

Jason... are you an a home inspector? or a salesman?

[Jason Kaylor]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

No... the FLUKE TiR has a +- of 2% when looking at materials with high emissivity

What was this Fluke's technicians name?

So why would Fluke put in their datasheets that it is 5%? If it was 2% they would advertise such, it is only to their benefit.

Your previous post in this thread said it is 2% when the target has high reflectivity, your last post said high emissivity. When does this magical 2% happen? Because according to the actual manufature, not a level I, II, III, the superbowl champions, Pete Rose, or Obamas opinion matters much to me when the company making the product says 5%.

And yes I am a salesman, and an authorized distributor for Fluke and Fluke Thermography. But I am not misrepresenting the product here, or anywhere for that matter. The original poster wanted to know the differences between the two units. The accuracy number you are giving him is incorrect. If your information was the final straw in the camels back to make him pull the trigger on a TiR he would be very upset if he needed the unit to perform in a way that you are advertising it does, when it doesn't.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras
Fluke TiR1 Resources
FLIR B60 Resources
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

I went on a home inspection with a level III thermographer. He had a $30,000 camera.
All I had was a BCAM. I found more defects than he did.

What type of Camera did he have John?