Infrared inspection for electrical problems

[Kevin A. Richardson]

1,375 views is not bad!

This is an exiciting place with lots of experience and many, many good inspectors.

It's nice to have a little tussel now and then

Joe,

Hope you have a wonderful holiday weekend.

Kevin

[David A. Andersen]

In John's class, I remember him specifically warning about the "Superman" approach to IR. He does practice what he preaches.

From the very beginning of this section of the NACHI BB we IR Guys have been preaching that you must follow up and "prove" the defect that IR has revealed to us. I have seen gross abuse of this technology on the Internet elsewhere, but I would still like to see the example where it has occurred here on this BB. It may be abused on members web sites, but they would unlikely dare to bring it here.

As I posted earlier, I have "predicted" future failure several times. It is how I reported and handled the issue that we did not get into. This is not Black-and-white "it's going to fail. I didn't run around yelling "the sky is falling"!

In the case of a pump motor failure, I saw something that looked odd to me.
I told this to the client and reiterated that I had no "base line" information on the component and could not verify a component issue. I further went on to test voltage and amperage draw on the motor, which was .4 amps over nameplate (not significant to report under any inspection procedure). The piping design could have caused this high amp condition from the beginning of installation. In accordance with RE Contract, it was operating and in operating condition (it was doing it's job). There is really no reason to justify a further evaluation.

In two weeks or so it failed!
The client contacted me and informed me. She was thankful for my efforts, not blaming me for the failure because I reported/explained in such a way that she understood I could not support a defect, even though I suspected one. She retained the motor for me after repair and I tore it apart. I found that motor winding insulation was breaking down and shorting to itself, making the winding length shorter, resulting in higher amp draw through the winding and at the shorted connection. This load imbalance also increased total heating of the motor. Because the IR scan of the windings is "indirect" (like looking through a fogged window) what I was seeing in the IR scan was not clear and prevented accurate identification/evaluation.

Under non-IR Inspection nothing would have been identified, other than .4 amp excessive draw on a lower than rated voltage supply. The motor would have failed right after the client moved in, after I had inspected the component. I think I would have received "one of those calls" none of I likes to get!

I made a call, kept it in perspective, addressed my clients expectations and happened to to be right in my suspicions.

I think the summer heat is getting to some of us on this board!
The discussion is good, but we are not getting along too well!

Joe has a justifiable perception because it "is" going on out there (just not here, that I saw).

Kevin and some of us are offended because of the perceived accusations against those of us that have elected to step outside of the box, but have kept things as they should be.

Some of us believe (and have proven) we can predict failure.
Some out there are "predicting" without proof, just making it up as they go along in a big marketing scam.
It's about keeping things in line with the technology (this comes from extensive training and experience) and in perspective with our reporting.

[Kevin A. Richardson]

Originally Posted by dandersen

In John's class, I remember him specifically warning about the "Superman" approach to IR. He does practice what he preaches.

From the very beginning of this section of the NACHI BB we IR Guys have been preaching that you must follow up and "prove" the defect that IR has revealed to us. I have seen gross abuse of this technology on the Internet elsewhere, but I would still like to see the example where it has occurred here on this BB. It may be abused on members web sites, but they would unlikely dare to bring it here.

As I posted earlier, I have "predicted" future failure several times. It is how I reported and handled the issue that we did not get into. This is not Black-and-white "it's going to fail. I didn't run around yelling "the sky is falling"!

In the case of a pump motor failure, I saw something that looked odd to me.
I told this to the client and reiterated that I had no "base line" information on the component and could not verify a component issue. I further went on to test voltage and amperage draw on the motor, which was .4 amps over nameplate (not significant to report under any inspection procedure). The piping design could have caused this high amp condition from the beginning of installation. In accordance with RE Contract, it was operating and in operating condition (it was doing it's job). There is really no reason to justify a further evaluation.

In two weeks or so it failed!
The client contacted me and informed me. She was thankful for my efforts, not blaming me for the failure because I reported/explained in such a way that she understood I could not support a defect, even though I suspected one. She retained the motor for me after repair and I tore it apart. I found that motor winding insulation was breaking down and shorting to itself, making the winding length shorter, resulting in higher amp draw through the winding and at the shorted connection. This load imbalance also increased total heating of the motor. Because the IR scan of the windings is "indirect" (like looking through a fogged window) what I was seeing in the IR scan was not clear and prevented accurate identification/evaluation.

Under non-IR Inspection nothing would have been identified, other than .4 amp excessive draw on a lower than rated voltage supply. The motor would have failed right after the client moved in, after I had inspected the component. I think I would have received "one of those calls" none of I likes to get!

I made a call, kept it in perspective, addressed my clients expectations and happened to to be right in my suspicions.

I think the summer heat is getting to some of us on this board!
The discussion is good, but we are not getting along too well!

Joe has a justifiable perception because it "is" going on out there (just not here, that I saw).

Kevin and some of us are offended because of the perceived accusations against those of us that have elected to step outside of the box, but have kept things as they should be.

Some of us believe (and have proven) we can predict failure.
Some out there are "predicting" without proof, just making it up as they go along in a big marketing scam.
It's about keeping things in line with the technology (this comes from extensive training and experience) and in perspective with our reporting.

David,

Very well said!!

Thank you for your contributions

Kevin

[Joe Farsetta]

Kevin,

You too!



David,

Exactly!

[John McKenna]

I let David Anderson help teach my class because he has a good balance and
a wealth of good information. He made some good ponts in the TN class.

[Joe Farsetta]

I'm confident that Kevin has a lot to offer as well.

[John McKenna]

The NACHI family at it's best.

[gporter]

Or it could be actual componet failure coming. Yes, anyone can say it will fail at some point or another. Calling for further evaluation many electricians will find nothing, Even with the house under a load. It may not be drawing more amps, connection may be tight under lug, Fuse still ohms out good, and by looking they are going to say that it is tight. Back to square one, electrician says all is alright to him because he probably does not see the image. Then your back to monitoring it for excessive heat, or signs of heat.

That is what is scarey. You look like you are miss informed. All sparky's should have one.

It seems this has went from the camera being the add on:which people passed on.

To being I will use it to protect my ***. Kevin is doing inspection on the commerical side which he needs the camera for that and God Love him.

I think using it on a non scourched (Spelling) is how you word it in the report. Maybe listed under monitor/maintain.

In the next 2 years we will all need the camera to just compete. Guys are throwing it in as part of the inspection. I was stand off about the camera but the more that is posted about the electrical panels scares the poop out of me. I know each and everyone of you that turms on the local news and hears there was a fire at a home in your area-you listen for the address.

Love the pics. Keep them coming. To all the instructors hats of to you. You are the trend setters. There will be a day when you will train the trainers.