InterNACHI and EnergySmart Boulder County enter into a formal agreement.

[Patrick Carter]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Patrick,

You are on the inside looking out. You have paid for trainiing from a SPECIFIC organization who is the driving force behind this. Is their intent altruistic, or is it money driven? I suspect it is the latter. Do the math. Muultiply what you paid for training times 100,000 would-be participants.

I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with a DOE mandated certification. I have a MAJOR problem with the notion that there is a SINGLE way in which to perform a DOE sanctioned energy assessment, and that one needs to be certified by a specific organization(s) PRIOR to being able to take the DOE certification testing and training. This is BOGUS on multiple levels and stinks to high-heavens.

I disagree with many of the modalities that BPI claims need to be performed iin order to perform a proper energy assessment. I am not alone in this. ASHRAE is comprised or professional mecanical engineers, and they dont buy all of what BPI is sellng.

And, yes, there is a coalition of 72 orgs actively seeking a governmental investigation into the award of the contract to BPI. I suspect that this is why the DOE has publicly stated that there will be more than one certification process. I do not count RESNET as a legitimate 2nd means, as the two are tied at the hip through the process.

Most Federal and State laws regarding licensing and certifications mandate that the bar be set as a minimum standard. This means that they must seek the lowest common denominator. Additionally, each Federal agency has certain socio-economic goals with regard to the award of contracts. With a new economic stimulus package looming, it is doubtful that any government-mandated certification program would DARE to limit training sources to a single, expensive sole-source supplier.

BPI training is expensive, and the tools they require to conduct an assessment are also not cheap. With the evidence not completely in, and professional engineers questioning whether this or that is needed to conduct a true energy assessment, I suspect that this will be but one of the DOE's programs aimed at improving energy effeciencies in homes throughot the US. That is, of course, if the DOE is not marginalized over the next two years, or eliminated entirely.

Negative? You bet. And, Patrick, please remember that your opinion is fueled by your investmment in a process that all have not subscribed to. I can tell you that the Federal Government, itself, DOES NOT mandate BPI-driven modalities when formulating how to evaluate the energy efficiencies of their own buildings.

I deal with professional engineers every day of the week. I know more than a little of what I speak.

Finally, I can easily PROVE, based on the law regardng the practice of professioinal engineerng, that the pressurization or depressurization of a dwellng, and the measurements and application of data to formulate a calculation based on said process, easily jumps into the realm of professional engineering.

Look at the application of what we do in a typiical home inspection, and look at the precautions we all take to avoid crossing the line based on how the laws are written. Then listen to your own arguments, and tell me they are not disingenuous.

Did it ever occur to you that some industries, including contractors and PEs, are waiting for all of this to pass before raising an issue that they are the ONLY ones that should be able to perform this type of work?

Is it any wonder that ONLY contractors were eligiible to participate in the trial of the new DOE standards? The DOE website clearly states that AFTER the trial, that others would be ALLOWED to participate. Yet, the initial plan ensured that those conducting the "assessments" had a vested interest in selling solutions to their assessments. Can you spell government-sanctioned conflicts of interest?

Wow.

You wonder why I am negative? Why shouldnt I be? And above all of this, there are enough of you who have drank the kool-aid and who actually believe you will that you will be given exclusivity to the process.

At the end of the day, the BPI model limits competition to itself as a source of recognized certification. If there was ever a definition for self-serving, this is it.

Thanks for responding Joe, but again I was asking for a reason for your negativity towards BPI, not why I am biased towards them because of investment...
I am not in the need for a lecture on business decisions I have made nor do I need you to be condesending. It is what it is, I can turn this around and claim that you have exhibited the same attitude and prejudices as well, but that is not what I wanted to do in my orginal post, I was honestly trying to understand your viewpoint and not asking for or to recieve accusations regarding my mind-set on decisions I made and/or about to make. There is some forms of intelligence on this MB, but it sure is hard to find sometimes because of suppress anger issues towards others...

[Patrick Carter]

Originally Posted by gfarnsworth

Doing inspections in KC for 10 years, I have seen the home inspection business going to the cheap, low guy in recent months. I spent years as a director in a top 75 fortune company. I know how it works. The light is on.

Being educated, have many certification initials next to your name, being a member of countless associations, will no longer get you business.

Only by being cheap, and writing basic short reports, and paying office fees are now the only ways that you will get any revenue.

That is not being positive, that is just being real. All home inspection and audit laws are written as a basic, minimum standard, and allow for very low prices. Free energy audits will then be provided by utility companies, insulation installers, etc. due to the basic minimums.

Really don't care about your marketing credentials, anyone can have those by sending in their dollars...

wrong again about the energy audits... Someone the other day told me it was futile to argue with someone who just doesn't get it... I guess I need to take their advice...

[Gary Farnsworth]

Me, too.

[Joe Farsetta]

Partick,

It's not about audits. It's not about the process. It's about a private company attempting to control a blossoming industry.

Imagine if you will that the Feds just decided, not through law, but through some mandated program for folks to qualify for loans, that the prospectove borrower had to hire a Federally sanctioned inspector. Imagine for a moment that that inspector had to have been trained by ASHI. Mind you that anyone can provide training on how to do an inspection, but you needed to show that you were trained by ASHI, and prove that you passed their course PRIOR to beiing able to take the national exam.

Now imagine that the ASHI training was really costly and that the tools they mandated you use during your inspection were also costly. Imagine that everyone did not agree that the manner in which ASHI insists an inspection be performed.

If this were the case, would we even be having this discussion? No one involved sees the problem with this...

Final point to ponder...

Now imagine that it remained uncertain, even after doing all this, that there was the possibility that at the end of the day the Feds hadnt given the green light for just anyone being able to do it, because the pilot program was currently being approved for ASHI members only...

[James H. Bushart]

Joe, there are two certifying bodies that federal and state governments (along with utility companies) will recognize for participation with their tax incentive and rebate programs ... BPI and RESNET.

These are not simply clubs with members who pay dues to belong to it, like ASHI.

In the meantime, this "doomed" bipartisan legislation appears to be picking up steam ....

[Joe Farsetta]

If the contract award holds up once it finally gets to the couts. I predict that there will be more than two sources for training.

It really doesnt take much to protest an award, or have that protest be upheld.

[Joe Farsetta]

Well, perhaps you need to really read the article. There is nothing to suggest the need for a BPI controlled energy audit. At least one other federal agency is involved, buing the treasury Department, who is under so much scrutiny that they will surely look to "diversify" training requirements. Finally, the CONTRACTORS are puching this under the guise of having it stimulate the economy and create jobs.

Why cant you guys see the handwriting on the wall?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Well, perhaps you need to really read the article. There is nothing to suggest the need for a BPI controlled energy audit. At least one other federal agency is involved, buing the treasury Department, who is under so much scrutiny that they will surely look to "diversify" training requirements. Finally, the CONTRACTORS are puching this under the guise of having it stimulate the economy and create jobs.

Why cant you guys see the handwriting on the wall?

The article references the bill a bipartisan group of senators have introduced. The bill requires RESNET or BPI certification. So do all of the major state tax credits and deductions as well as utility company rebates. If you think the New York engineers are going to change the world, I think you are doing too much wishful thinking, my friend.

The clamoring of engineers is loud where you are, Joe ... but no one else is listening.

Besides, only a fool would build a business that relies upon government programs and funding. It's nice to have but if it goes away ... and I really hope that it does for reasons unrelated to anything on this thread ... I wouldn't miss it.

[James H. Bushart]

I just had to post this ... A New York Engineering firm posted this ad for three energy auditors on a BPI message board.

New York City Engineering Consulting Firm is hiring 3 Energy Auditors for residential and commercial bldgs. Perm with great benes and pay. Resumes to jd@xxxxx.com

I guess they didn't get the news.