Just got home from John's Toronto Class

[mreusch]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Understanding this stuff and its implications is not a 2-3 day course as first the old Half-truth facts and street level knowledge that is passed around has to be "unlearnt" and then the building science based on studies that have been going on from the 1930's will have to be understood. Been working in this stuff from 1977...still able to learn or.......shoot down those trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes with over-embellished info......called lies!!

Please tell me more about all this as I am new to this technology and am curious as to what you mean?

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Understanding this stuff and its implications is not a 2-3 day course as first the old Half-truth facts and street level knowledge that is passed around has to be "unlearnt" and then the building science based on studies that have been going on from the 1930's will have to be understood. Been working in this stuff from 1977...still able to learn or.......shoot down those trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes with over-embellished info......called lies!!

Me too! Please tell us more~

[John McKenna]

Teach us Brian, we are all ears.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Teach us Brian, we are all ears.

Question:

Do homes need vapour barriers in walls and ceilings??

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Question:

Do homes need vapour barriers in walls and ceilings??

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/.../mytopic=11810



Teach us Brian.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/.../mytopic=11810



Teach us Brian.

You're the teacher, John. Can you lead us into the future without resorting to government charts?

[klott]

Brian, you are the one who is claiming to be the all knowing protector of consumers, the ball is in your court. Serve it!

[ldapkus]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

Me too! Please tell us more~

He's on the outside looking in. Sad. What more can I say??

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by klott

Brian, you are the one who is claiming to be the all knowing protector of consumers, the ball is in your court. Serve it!

Touché

.

[jbettencourt]

Do they need a vapour barrier? According to building codes yes. According to other independent sources they may actually cause more harm than good. As long as it is in the Government mandated building code than that is what I follow or should I tell everyone to open their walls and remove their vapour barrier because it may not be of a benefit. Does global warming exist or not? Some say yes some say no.

[William J. Decker]

The problem is not, so much, one of vapor (or air or water) barriers, it's one of the proper type and kind for the area and climate.

I agree that the local codes (which are the only government mandated codes) must be followed, but you have to understand that most municipalities (at least around here) do not have the proper qualified people to determine what is proper. Mostly, local building codes are more a political specification than a technical one. I recently did some work for the local Village of LaGrange (litigation work, mold houses). The chief village inspector was AIA and ICC Master Inspector rated. Yet, she knew nothing about water intrusion problems (the cause of these mold houses, which were new construction) and, when I showed here the process taking place, she saw it, understood it, but told me that the local codes required it to be built that way. She also told me that the current village codes were the 1992 IRC. She said that she has been trying to get the village to update them for years, but you know politicians.

We will see more of this, over the next few years. I already see village codes clash with the new "green building" standards and codes that many villages are requiring now. They never get together and reconcile these two. So, the builder is building "tighter" for more energy efficiency, but not taking into account how that increased tightness affects other parts of the house.

In addition, at least around here, the people who have political control of the "green building" standards are know nothing activists who have a lot of political pull, but no expertise in building science. One idiot I talked to, who was heading up the new "green" code committee for a local village kept insisting that all buildings be built in the shape of a pyramid because, so he claimed, "everyone knows that a pyramid is a universal shape and helps preserve what's inside it. It's been scientifically proven!"

Gonna be an interesting couple of years.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Touché

... Brian is out.!

That's right.....was out doing the second inspection/consultation of the day with an environmentally sensitive lady from Winnipeg who is in the process of purchasing a summer home near the ocean shore here. After my meeting, the client asked me if I would go to Winnipeg (about 2500 miles...she would pay) to look at her home there that is causing her problems again.

Hard to believe? Fact is stranger than fiction!!

[jbettencourt]

Will, I understand everything that you were saying. I was simply replying that as long as it is in the building code than yes it is required whether it is right or wrong in someones opinion. Plus I love the debate that occurs here when a number of people volley back and forth to prove their points, it can be very educational.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by wdecker

The problem is not, so much, one of vapor (or air or water) barriers, it's one of the proper type and kind for the area and climate.

I agree that the local codes (which are the only government mandated codes) must be followed,

Not necessarily, Will. Most codes have a clause and/or process to allow innovation, or else the building industry would still be where it was when the first codes were written. I have used that a few times here after being called for help by owner-builders and contractors (usually on air/vapour barrier and insulation systems- last one was an Icynene insulator) and even have been consulted a couple of times by municipal inspectors when they found new/innovative items.

Our model National Building Code (NBC) just went through a 10 year re-structuring in which it added an objective (or performance) based approach to construction. For example: The objective of placing a roof on a house is multifunctional but one main use is to protect us from falling moisture in its various forms......but, in codes, only certain prescribed, tested materials are allowed to be used on a roof.....Thatched roofs have been used successfully in England for centuries and can't be used in code regulated jurisdictions. Even with historical evidence of performance, they are still outlawed. With proof of performance, they should be allowed and may be in our present codes. (an out of the park example, I admit, but straw bale construction has a big following and is going through the same growing pains.)

but you have to understand that most municipalities (at least around here) do not have the proper qualified people to determine what is proper.

You can't have properly trained people enforcing codes if politicians sell us on the idea of constantly reducing taxes simply to buy your vote while thee important employees rarely get sent out of the office to retrain due to LACK OF BUDGET.....things change and these people need to retrain...it's not an osmosis process from remote offices!!

Mostly, local building codes are more a political specification than a technical one. I recently did some work for the local Village of LaGrange (litigation work, mold houses). The chief village inspector was AIA and ICC Master Inspector rated. Yet, she knew nothing about water intrusion problems (the cause of these mold houses, which were new construction) and, when I showed here the process taking place, she saw it, understood it, but told me that the local codes required it to be built that way. She also told me that the current village codes were the 1992 IRC. She said that she has been trying to get the village to update them for years, but you know politicians.

We will see more of this, over the next few years. I already see village codes clash with the new "green building" standards and codes that many villages are requiring now. They never get together and reconcile these two. So, the builder is building "tighter" for more energy efficiency, but not taking into account how that increased tightness affects other parts of the house.

In addition, at least around here, the people who have political control of the "green building" standards are know nothing activists who have a lot of political pull, but no expertise in building science. One idiot I talked to, who was heading up the new "green" code committee for a local village kept insisting that all buildings be built in the shape of a pyramid because, so he claimed, "everyone knows that a pyramid is a universal shape and helps preserve what's inside it. It's been scientifically proven!"

Gonna be an interesting couple of years.

The reason I said this, Will:

"Half-truth facts and street level knowledge that is passed around has to be "unlearnt" and then the building science based on studies that have been going on from the 1930's will have to be understood"

but it seemed to stir a lot of resentment. Seems everbody already knows it all.

[Erol Kartal]

There is definetly a benefit of having a barrier on the attic floor. This prevents moisture from rising and causing damage to rafters, sheating, etc; Paper side faced down insulation generally acts as the barrier. The flip side is that mosture will now be confined to the home envelope which is why we emphazize the importance of adequate air circulation in the living space.