On-line IR course -Building IR Basics

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

This (Building IR Basics) course is coming in March.
Infracam Basics, is available now as well as BCAM Basics.


InfraCAM Basics

http://www.infraredtraining.com/cour...inspectors.asp

[William J. Decker]

Not to be critical, just to add some "constructive criticism".

Look, IR is new to the construction trades.

Most of the courses are being done by "vendors" who align themselves with the camera companies. They want to sell the cameras to people who don't already have them.

Then, there is the Home Inspector market.

Check out this detail in one of the offerings:

"Prerequisites: To get the most out of this course, we highly recommend that you have completed another course of study in infrared thermography before joining this course (e.g. Level I, BCAM Basics, or InfraCAM Basics)."

So, in order to take this course, you are "highly recommed(ed)" to have already taken either LEVEL I (a good, national standard course, but one that is only about 20% applicable to what you actually do for a living) or BCAM Basics or InfraCAM basics (both, on-line, minimal courses, not really teaching much more than how to turn the thing on and make pretty pictures). How can any credible educator put these two types of course in the same prerequisite?

Do you see the difference?

What I have always belived is that Home Inspectors are a "special" breed of students.

1) Many come from the trades. There is nothing wrong with this. But the "tradesman" has not been known for their "academic" book learning. A good course has to be able to communicate the theory to people who have been, traditionally, practically minded.

2) Being "qualified" to do IR, within the home inspections community, has special requirements. We (if we are good ) look at the WHOLE house, not just electrical (motors ) or HVAC or water or cold air intrusion. And we have to KNOW how all these findings come together with the stuff we find using our normal skills and inspection techniques.

3) "Professional" thermographers don not do home inspections. No slam, it's just not their job or area of expertise.

4) The camera companies have been marketing to certain markets for so long, they the think that HIs are just another segment of an existing market, not the seperate and distinct marlet that we really are.

5) Paying over $1,000.00 for training, and learning things that are not applicable to what we do (although, it is really cool stuff ) and taking 3 to 5 days to do so (and losing inspection time during those extra days) does not help.

6) Having a course that is specifically designed and geared towards home inspectors, teaching both the necessary theory (and tailored towards that specific audience) and the practical experience (with homework. Get used to it! This is reality!) and actually involving real world (for HIs) situations and having HARD tests that challange the HI, in his/her own world (with the very real possibility of failing the course if they don't pay attention!) is a much better course.

Learning Thermal Imaging, specifically for Home Inspections, and equipping the students to hit the ground running, should be the goal.

I have been to too many courses that charge mucho money and make it easy (so everyone passed and doesn't b*tch about the money they paid) and don't really teach a darned thing.

And, the camera companies just want to sell more cameras.

And, the vendors who hook up with the camera companies just want to make money.

Be very particular about which courses you choose.

Hope this helps;

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Will, your joking right?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

Will, your joking right?

How so?

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Will writes;

I have been to too many courses that charge mucho money and make it easy (so everyone passed and doesn't b*tch about the money they paid) and don't really teach a darned thing.

Will,

I disagree with your above statement.

I have learned a lot from doing the Level 1 course with ITC. It hasn't made me an expert by any means, but it was a great start. I will be doing BS in April, and feel I'm prepared in terms of understanding the use of the camera and the technology.

If you are looking at a course geared more for the Home Inspector I would suggest this course IR Thermography for Weatherization. I plan on taking this course when available in my area.

http://www.infraredtraining.com/cour...herization.asp

[dharris]

mkyriacou]Will, your joking right?

LOL
I believe he's serious
Here's his quote on nachos instant mail order IR certificiation course.

Granted, we could (and should) have taken a little more time to fine tune it, but that wasn't my decision

.

Just pay him $500 bucks for his non completed instant nacho IR certificiation, just promise to learn the rest on paying customers homes.





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[ekartal6]

Will,

In my personal opinion you're way off base with ITC classes being easy and uneducational. At my last class three students failed and will have to take the test again. Fortunately, I wasn't one of them.

[Kevin A. Richardson]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Not to be critical, just to add some "constructive criticism".

Look, IR is new to the construction trades.

Most of the courses are being done by "vendors" who align themselves with the camera companies. They want to sell the cameras to people who don't already have them.

Then, there is the Home Inspector market.

Check out this detail in one of the offerings:

"Prerequisites: To get the most out of this course, we highly recommend that you have completed another course of study in infrared thermography before joining this course (e.g. Level I, BCAM Basics, or InfraCAM Basics)."

So, in order to take this course, you are "highly recommed(ed)" to have already taken either LEVEL I (a good, national standard course, but one that is only about 20% applicable to what you actually do for a living) or BCAM Basics or InfraCAM basics (both, on-line, minimal courses, not really teaching much more than how to turn the thing on and make pretty pictures). How can any credible educator put these two types of course in the same prerequisite?

Do you see the difference?

What I have always belived is that Home Inspectors are a "special" breed of students.

1) Many come from the trades. There is nothing wrong with this. But the "tradesman" has not been known for their "academic" book learning. A good course has to be able to communicate the theory to people who have been, traditionally, practically minded.

2) Being "qualified" to do IR, within the home inspections community, has special requirements. We (if we are good ) look at the WHOLE house, not just electrical (motors ) or HVAC or water or cold air intrusion. And we have to KNOW how all these findings come together with the stuff we find using our normal skills and inspection techniques.

3) "Professional" thermographers don not do home inspections. No slam, it's just not their job or area of expertise.

4) The camera companies have been marketing to certain markets for so long, they the think that HIs are just another segment of an existing market, not the seperate and distinct marlet that we really are.

5) Paying over $1,000.00 for training, and learning things that are not applicable to what we do (although, it is really cool stuff ) and taking 3 to 5 days to do so (and losing inspection time during those extra days) does not help.

6) Having a course that is specifically designed and geared towards home inspectors, teaching both the necessary theory (and tailored towards that specific audience) and the practical experience (with homework. Get used to it! This is reality!) and actually involving real world (for HIs) situations and having HARD tests that challange the HI, in his/her own world (with the very real possibility of failing the course if they don't pay attention!) is a much better course.

Learning Thermal Imaging, specifically for Home Inspections, and equipping the students to hit the ground running, should be the goal.

I have been to too many courses that charge mucho money and make it easy (so everyone passed and doesn't b*tch about the money they paid) and don't really teach a darned thing.

And, the camera companies just want to sell more cameras.

And, the vendors who hook up with the camera companies just want to make money.

Be very particular about which courses you choose.

Hope this helps;

I also disagree with your logic.

Kevin

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by ekartal6

Will,

In my personal opinion you're way off base with ITC classes being easy and uneducational. At my last class three students failed and will have to take the test again. Fortunately, I wasn't one of them.

Erol;

I wasn't talking about the ITC course when I made this comment.

You have taken some of the CE courses, around here, and know what I mean.

Just to clarify.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Not to be critical, just to add some "constructive criticism".

Look, IR is new to the construction trades.

Most of the courses are being done by "vendors" who align themselves with the camera companies. They want to sell the cameras to people who don't already have them.

Then, there is the Home Inspector market.

Check out this detail in one of the offerings:

"Prerequisites: To get the most out of this course, we highly recommend that you have completed another course of study in infrared thermography before joining this course (e.g. Level I, BCAM Basics, or InfraCAM Basics)."

So, in order to take this course, you are "highly recommed(ed)" to have already taken either LEVEL I (a good, national standard course, but one that is only about 20% applicable to what you actually do for a living) or BCAM Basics or InfraCAM basics (both, on-line, minimal courses, not really teaching much more than how to turn the thing on and make pretty pictures). How can any credible educator put these two types of course in the same prerequisite?

Do you see the difference?

What I have always belived is that Home Inspectors are a "special" breed of students.

1) Many come from the trades. There is nothing wrong with this. But the "tradesman" has not been known for their "academic" book learning. A good course has to be able to communicate the theory to people who have been, traditionally, practically minded.

2) Being "qualified" to do IR, within the home inspections community, has special requirements. We (if we are good ) look at the WHOLE house, not just electrical (motors ) or HVAC or water or cold air intrusion. And we have to KNOW how all these findings come together with the stuff we find using our normal skills and inspection techniques.

3) "Professional" thermographers don not do home inspections. No slam, it's just not their job or area of expertise.

4) The camera companies have been marketing to certain markets for so long, they the think that HIs are just another segment of an existing market, not the seperate and distinct marlet that we really are.

5) Paying over $1,000.00 for training, and learning things that are not applicable to what we do (although, it is really cool stuff ) and taking 3 to 5 days to do so (and losing inspection time during those extra days) does not help.

6) Having a course that is specifically designed and geared towards home inspectors, teaching both the necessary theory (and tailored towards that specific audience) and the practical experience (with homework. Get used to it! This is reality!) and actually involving real world (for HIs) situations and having HARD tests that challange the HI, in his/her own world (with the very real possibility of failing the course if they don't pay attention!) is a much better course.

Learning Thermal Imaging, specifically for Home Inspections, and equipping the students to hit the ground running, should be the goal.

I have been to too many courses that charge mucho money and make it easy (so everyone passed and doesn't b*tch about the money they paid) and don't really teach a darned thing.

And, the camera companies just want to sell more cameras.

And, the vendors who hook up with the camera companies just want to make money.

Be very particular about which courses you choose.

Hope this helps;

Will.

It sure sounds like your talking about ITC!!!!

The courses I posted are offered by ITC. I admit that they are not as in-depth as the in-class courses but are good courses none the less.

[John McKenna]

All the IR courses out there that are being sold to home inspectors are way over
priced, and most of the info is not needed to do a home inspection... Including ITC.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

All the IR courses out there that are being sold to home inspectors are way over
priced, and most of the info is not needed to do a home inspection... Including ITC.

John,

You are talking about 4 days in a classroom setting, breakfast and lunch are served with top notch instructors and all the course material. Do you really believe that the courses are overpriced?

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

John,

You are talking about 4 days in a classroom setting, breakfast and lunch are served with top notch instructors and all the course material. Do you really believe that the courses are overpriced?

It's a 3.5 day course... and it cost the inspector $500+ per day.
The little snacks cost them a few dollars per person.

So the inspector pays about $1800 for the course + motel + airline +
misc. travel expense + loss time at work which all runs into thousands of
dollars.... and about half the stuff in the course is information not
needed for a regular home inspection.

Level I, II, and III courses were all created back in the 90's before
home inspectors were using the IR camera for inspections. That
is why they are so lacking. The building science course is great,
but much of it concerns information not used in a normal home
inspection.

Almost all Level III thermographers cannot use and IR camera to
inspect a house. They were raised in other fields.

The IR camera is not the hard part... it's the inspecting skills that takes
longer to learn.

We as inspectors do not need the ASNT to tell us what a thermographer
needs. There standards are not in use for home inspectors anywhere.

It's all an illusion.

[Justo Mickey Rivera]

Now, as far as legalese goes, is taking the shorter, "just what we should really know" version better than going through a 3.5 or 4 day course.

I understand that one needs to "understand" it's proper use. Just asking, because I know there are others wondering the same thing.

How would it stand up in court ?

Mic

[rcooke]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

John,

You are talking about 4 days in a classroom setting, breakfast and lunch are served with top notch instructors and all the course material. Do you really believe that the courses are overpriced?

Having taken both the Flir IR 3.5 day course ( $1,800;00)(++)and the NACHI 2 day at home course.( That John Mc. and Will D Taught )($500:00)
Yes I do feel the FLIR course is wastly over priced.
The FLIR Course to me was not slanted to-wards the Home Inspector .
Not blaming Flir 22 in the course only 4 where home inspectors. only 4 had a camera that cost less the $10,000;00. ( some where up to $60;000;00 I think ).
I am also taking other courses.
How will it stand up in court well how about the home inspector training that many do not have they seem to do well in staying out of court.

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