PRO-LAB deal on IR Camera: $2,995.

[John McKenna]

If IR inspectors post that they like their IR camera, good for them.

One of the side benefits of an IR camera is the fact that it makes
a great marketing tool. That is cool too. They can charge whatever
they want and if they think it helps them do a better job, then I
see no problem with that either.

Live an let live. Where is the sin?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

If IR inspectors post that they like their IR camera, good for them.

One of the side benefits of an IR camera is the fact that it makes
a great marketing tool. That is cool too. They can charge whatever
they want and if they think it helps them do a better job, then I
see no problem with that either.

Live an let live. Where is the sin?

There is "marketing"...and then there is intentionally misleading the public. The latter is the sin.

IR cameras, like other tools, can help an inspector in certain situations. I think if the truth were told, if one were forced to choose between taking a flashlight or an IR camera, the flashlight would prevail.

So to say that an IR is essential to a basic home inspection, or to infer that a home inspection conducted without an IR camera is insufficient, is an intentional misleading of the public.

Free enterprise is good. Greed is good. Go for the most money you can legitimately earn with every opportunity. Just tell the truth.

Those who sell education for camera users certainly need a market and there is no harm in their touting the device. But to diminish from the work of others who also use a variety of sophisticated tools to ensure accuracy in their description of defects is unethical and wrong.

I am not accusing any one individual, but I have read some posts that skirt very closely to disparaging inspections not conducted with these cameras, which is absolutely ridiculous.

There is a weakness in this industry that holds our prices down, continuously, IMO. For some strange and unexplainable reason...whether it is the association I belong to, the tools I use, the SOP I use, or the licensing law I lobby for...I want to be only the minimum acceptable.

That's right, and you can see it on every message board in the industry.

My qualifications/association/tools/etcetera are what it takes to do a home inspection and anyone lacking is not qualified to perform one.

So...with all my qualifications/tools/associations/etcetera....and my fee of $275 for a 2000 sq ft house....I am still stuck at the bottom.

If this IR enhances the inspection in the ways that you say....you would be paid extra for it. If you are not making extra money from this investment, it is a bad one....for one with the proper knowledge and experience can perform a complete home inspection in accordance with the SOP with little more a flashlight, ladder and tape measure.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jbushart

So to say that an IR is essential to a basic home inspection, or to infer that a home inspection conducted without an IR camera is insufficient, is an intentional misleading of the public.

The InterNACHI inspector agreement states:

"Thermal imaging is a technology that allows the InterNACHI
INSPECTOR to show you things about your home that no one can
show you using other inspection methods."

This is simply a true statement.

Regarding what someone charges, that is none of my business.
I charge more, but I don't care if others do or not.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

The InterNACHI inspector agreement states:

"Thermal imaging is a technology that allows the InterNACHI
INSPECTOR to show you things about your home that no one can
show you using other inspection methods."

This is simply a true statement.

Regarding what someone charges, that is none of my business.
I charge more, but I don't care if others do or not.

I don't understand your reason for the quote from the agreement or its relevance. There is nothing that an IR camera can do, exclusively, to perform an inspection in accordance with the SOP that an inspector could not already do.

The "more"....the additional things an IR camera could show....should result in extra pay. The "more" does not detract from the SOP performed home inspection. If the people are not paying more for the "more"...what the hell use is it?

Glad to hear you are charging more for "more".

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I don't understand your reason for the quote from the agreement or its relevance. There is nothing that an IR camera can do, exclusively, to perform an inspection in accordance with the SOP that an inspector could not already do.

The "more"....the additional things an IR camera could show....should result in extra pay. The "more" does not detract from the SOP performed home inspection. If the people are not paying more for the "more"...what the hell use is it?

Glad to hear you are charging more for "more".

You said it was "misleading" to say an "IR is essential to a basic home inspection".

I am saying that an IR camera is essential for a more thorough home inspection
and the inspector agreement states this as well... that IR reveals things that
"no one can show you using other inspection methods."

There is nothing wrong with promoting more than the minimum standard.
Promoting a better inspection is cool.

[Ron C. Bibler]

If ever i saw 2 sides of a coin. Or something that exposes both sides of a coin. The Infrared camera is it. I have had Real Estate Agents just get in there cars and drive off from an inspection because they did not know what to say to there sellers when the buying agent had me doing an Infrared scan to a home with a vaulted ceiling and exposing all the missing insulation and roof leaks. The seller just walking out the back door standing in the back yard.

Then i see One H.I. On one side of the Infrared camera and then we See others that don't want anything to do with them. Just amazing.

This will be one of the most interesting things to see play out over the next 5 years or so. As it stand now I'm the only Structural Pest Building Inspector North of San Francisco. The first time i saw an Infrared camera i just about fell out of my chair. I have been inspecting homes for some 30 years now and this tool I.R Is by far the best tool for an inspector to have in his hipbag. I completely understand both side and both points of view.

The only thing i can say is that if you want to make a few more bucks I.R. Is the way to go... For me I'm making an extra $ 2.000.00 a month from it as a stand alone extra and I'm just getting started in my area... That's an extra $ 24K A year the first year...

I don't sell it as I'm better than any other inspector. But and this is the big one. Everyday i find things other inspectors over look. If any one over looks that point then i don't know what to say... But ( i ) do a better job with the camera then ( i ) DO with out it. And I'm making more money with it.

Best

Ron

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

You said it was "misleading" to say an "IR is essential to a basic home inspection".

I am saying that an IR camera is essential for a more thorough home inspection
and the inspector agreement states this as well... that IR reveals things that
"no one can show you using other inspection methods."

There is nothing wrong with promoting more than the minimum standard.
Promoting a better inspection is cool.

Your quote does not say what you say it does.

What is essential, and what a home inspector is paid to perform (especially in Texas where the state determines for you what is essential) is an inspection performed and reported in accordance with the SOP.

This can be done without an IR camera.

If you want to know things about your home that are not on the SOP...hopefully, for an extra fee.....you can get an "infra red" peak at your house.

Ancilliary inspections for energy efficiency, etc....these are great add ons.

But a thorough and complete home inspection performed in accordance with the SOP need not have IR technology to be essential, complete, and accurate.

You know this. It does not sell the camera or the class, but you still know this to be true.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by Ron C. Bibler

If ever i saw 2 sides of a coin. Or something that exposes both sides of a coin. The Infrared camera is it. I have had Real Estate Agents just get in there cars and drive off from an inspection because they did not know what to say to there sellers when the buying agent had me doing an Infrared scan to a home with a vaulted ceiling and exposing all the missing insulation and roof leaks. The seller just walking out the back door standing in the back yard.

Then i see One H.I. On one side of the Infrared camera and then we See others that don't want anything to do with them. Just amazing.

This will be one of the most interesting things to see play out over the next 5 years or so. As it stand now I'm the only Structural Pest Building Inspector North of San Francisco. The first time i saw an Infrared camera i just about fell out of my chair. I have been inspecting homes for some 30 years now and this tool I.R Is by far the best tool for an inspector to have in his hipbag. I completely understand both side and both points of view.

The only thing i can say is that if you want to make a few more bucks I.R. Is the way to go... For me I'm making an extra $ 2.000.00 a month from it as a stand alone extra and I'm just getting started in my area... That's an extra $ 24K A year the first year...

I don't sell it as I'm better than any other inspector. But and this is the big one. Everyday i find things other inspectors over look. If any one over looks that point then i don't know what to say... But ( i ) do a better job with the camera then ( i ) DO with out it. And I'm making more money with it.

Best

Ron

I do not see a thing wrong with your post. Very good points.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Your quote does not say what you say it does.

What is essential, and what a home inspector is paid to perform (especially in Texas where the state determines for you what is essential) is an inspection performed and reported in accordance with the SOP.

The Texas SOP says we are allowed to exceed the standards, but at the least, we must
meet the minimum standard.

This can be done without an IR camera.

We all agree that that SOP is the minimum standard. The IR camera is for
those who want to do more. If you don't want to do more... that is cool.

If you want to know things about your home that are not on the SOP...hopefully, for an extra fee.....you can get an "infra red" peak at your house.

Correct.

Ancilliary inspections for energy efficiency, etc....these are great add ons.

But a thorough and complete home inspection performed in accordance with the SOP need not have IR technology to be essential, complete, and accurate.

You do not need an IR camera to fulfill the SOP. Correct... But with an IR
camera you can sell the idea of a more "complete and accurate inspection"
and be telling the truth at the same time. Remember... we are not trying
to sell the minimum, but the more.

You know this. It does not sell the camera or the class, but you still know this to be true.

What sells the IR camera is the fact that it finds more defects than the
naked eye.

What is so complex about this? I know that an IR camera does not fit into your
"walk by" inspections that you promote, but not all of us are into that.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

What is so complex about this? I know that an IR camera does not fit into your
"walk by" inspections that you promote, but not all of us are into that.

John you are whizzing against the wind in even discussing this. There are too many inspectors out there that want nothing more than to just follow a bare minimum SOP and that is what SOP's are, just the minimum required by any State or National association to get the job done. I for one have always exceeded the minimum it is a very simple market approach provide more than the guy down the street. Notice I stated more, not better. It does not matter if you do this with tools,experience or knowledge but there must be something that separates you from the other guy for the client choose you. The IR camera was the business decision I chose to provide this difference. I Market the hell out of this tool and will continue too until every HI has one in his tool bag and then I will market my longevity with this tool over someone one just starting out with one.

[James H. Bushart]

The day is coming...and is not far away...when an SOP will be exceeded by an inspector with an IR camera who misinterprets a cool temperature reading as moisture and will cost the sale and be sued by the seller.

He will turn and read his E&O policy that requires his compliance with the NACHI SOP while the plaintiff's attorney is introducing into evidence his "marketing" materials whereby he advertises how he "exceeds" (aka "does not comply") with the NACHI SOP.

When that happens...(not if)...it will be broadcast like wildfire through the used house salesmen's communication systems and there will be a pandemic of issues regarding people who are "exceeding" instead of complying with the SOP with their use of their IR cameras "to show more".

I would be lying if I were to suggest that I, among others, will not have a slight smile my face as I pretend to be shocked and concerned about this horrible turn of events as I am being told about them.

But I salute the inspector who inspects and reports according to the SOP and, in addition, provides and charges for the extra services that he can provide with his IR camera. When the prices become more reasonable, I plan to do so, myself.

[Charley L. Bottger]

There is no SOP out there that limits ones ability to exceed. Only the E&O try that. A fool would advertise and publish services that were not qualified by education and experience. Anyone just buying a camera without the education deserves what falls on his shoulders. I would be the first to throw dirt on his business coffin.

[bkelly1]

For one not to own a camera , it would be hard for one to see the actual benefit of having and using one. If an inspector uses proper protocal he will not have false reading that will blow a sale for a realtor or seller. He will follow up accordingly. But, it is hard to show, what one has not seen.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jbushart

When that happens...(not if)...it will be broadcast like wildfire through the used house salesmen's communication systems and there will be a pandemic of issues regarding people who are "exceeding" instead of complying with the SOP with their use of their IR cameras "to show more".

James, this has already happened several times and the world as we know
it has not ended. The inspector who blows it, will take the heat, as always.

To my clients I say....

There is only one real question to ask yourself. How good of a home inspection do you want?

Most first calls that I get from prospective clients ask:

"How much do you charge?"

If you are looking for a quick (and cheap) home inspection, you won't hire us. If you call and talk to us, we will be happy to help and answer all your questions (for free, and we are happy to help) and give you the names of several other Home Inspectors who serve the area where your new home is. They will probably charge you less and they will follow the bare minimum requirements required by the state. You will probably be satisfied. But, please note: We will not be endorsing them or their services! We work on an entirely different level.

We decided, when we began this company, that it would not be worth it if we didn't enjoy and take pride in our work, if we didn't do an exceptional job for each and every one of our clients. We decided that we will not work for any Realtor or bank or mortgage company or become beholding to any professional organization that did not demand excellence. We work for our clients and no one else. (Will Decker)

[Richard L. Bennett]

I take a lot of pix with my "D" camera, Some make it to the report some do not

All are inspected for additional information. I can take shots in locations where it would be unsafe for me to inspect. The flash, zoom, and storage are far better than the systems installed by God or my parrents. God invented and mom and dad were the tools

In any case the camera helps to produce a better inspection. I would have no problem leaving the flashlight at home but not the camera

The IR camera is just like my "D" camera with a little more frequency response.

Sort like AM and FM radio

The flashlight is not in my SOP my camera is --- I tell everyone that I follow the Nachi SOP but guess what -- I follow my own

So if I ever get in front of "THE MAN" I would say "go sue Nachi for having a bad SOP that is why I did not follow it"

BTW -- Read it and then tell me that it does not need help

rlb