See Through Walls?

[John McKenna]

See through walls?

http://www.homesafeinspection.com/in...=139&Itemid=33

[John D. Richards]

I can see the future using my crystal ball, I see these guys going to court.

[John McKenna]

I will give anyone a fair chance to justify their claims... has anyone
seen their IR camera and methods in action? I am not bashing anyone,
I would just like to know.

I think Steve Ramos is familar with Homesafe, perhaps he knows.

[Jay Markanich]

John - On my son's first tour in Iraq (US Marines) he called me one day to tell me about helo and a helmet** they had (have) that could look into houses to see people AND caches of weapons. If they saw weapons they marked the house for "future consideration."

I thought, that probably beats my RAZ-IR by a huge margin. But I know my RAZ can't see "inside walls..." Should we pool our money and send someone to take the class?

** Probably a satellite too, but we'll never hear about that...

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jmarkanich

John - On my son's first tour in Iraq (US Marines) he called me one day to tell me about helo and a helmet** they had (have) that could look into houses to see people AND caches of weapons. If they saw weapons they marked the house for "future consideration."

I thought, that probably beats my RAZ-IR by a huge margin. But I know my RAZ can't see "inside walls..." Should we pool our money and send someone to take the class?

** Probably a satellite too, but we'll never hear about that...

The infrared camera is the only thing I read about on their page.
I know the military has developed some advanced technology, but
I am not sure if anyone is doing home inspections with it.

[Jay Markanich]

John - Looks like Homesafe is partnered with Kaplan ITA and offers classes and on-line classes. It seems like they are all the same entity, on the same ad together - someone like you should go to the class and rip them apart. I will help contribute toward the cost... looks like Wilford Brimley demonstrates how to use the device...

Military device spillover, the so-called "Tactical to Practical," usually wends its way into our hands one way or the other... maybe one day we will have a NACHI satellite to have a zap look at a house and download us all the deficiencies into a neat little binder... imagine the HI fees just to tap into THAT sucker!

That not good is? Is good not that? Not is... whatever, I am still working on that Texas lingo.

[Silent Wanderer]

IR camera cannot see through walls, glass, clothing. These are common myths. They only see energy emitted from, through or behind objects. They detect energy, not specifically heat.

[bdoles2]

Originally Posted by Silent Wanderer

IR camera cannot see through walls, glass, clothing. These are common myths. They only see energy emitted from, through or behind objects. They detect energy, not specifically heat.

Thanks for the info!

I've had it wrong all along.

[John McKenna]

Nice IR video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2--0q0XlQJ0&feature=related

[Kevin R. Weiss]

While I don't agree with the terminology in their ad and would never use such personally. I actually agree it is a dangerous ad and potentially detrimental to those of us who provide IR as it will tend to give false information/hope to potential customers, who will not understand that the quotes around "see" mean it doesn't actually see through the wall as we know and I imagine that they know.

As far as the Kaplan/Homesafe class:
I don't think it is fair to bash a class you have not taken, whether from Homesafe or Kaplan. I have not taken John's class or FLIR's class, and that being the case, would never comment on their content or quality. I happened to take this IR class. I also have a background in IR from my engineering days both in college at Texas A&M and the engineering I did for a few years, so I can attest that the class is pretty sound in IR theory and such.

Just my opinion of course, but this is a publiuc forum and we are discussing a new application of a technology. People will research things online. Bickering amoung education providers with no basis does no good for anyone.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Can you see through glass?

How about very dark glass?

How about clear glass at nite?

What if the wall was made out of dark glass and you had an IR camera?

In short we are talking about the meaning of words here

If I were to go to court I could prove that I can see through walls with an IR camera

Walls means more than one but not all.

Anyone want to go to court with $$ on the table

rlb

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by rbennett

Can you see through glass?....
...If I were to go to court I could prove that I can see through walls with an IR camera

From the FLIR-ITC training web page:

"I have seen movies where thermal imaging is used to “see through” walls.
Can this really be done?

Unfortunately this is pure Hollywood fiction."

and...

" longwave infrared energy will not pass through glass."

http://www.infraredtraining.com/ir_primer.asp

Mr Bennett,

Please post some pictures you have taken with your IR camera
that demonstrates it can see through walls or glass.

No play on words, just post the pictures please.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Ok people

What type of material would one make a wall out of that an IR camera could see through??

And then would the statement that IR can see throught walls be correct??

It is all in what the wall is made of and if there is a delta "T" between materials

We can't see anything in the dark or even if the light is too bright

One must first understand the word "see"


rlb

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by rbennett

Ok people

What type of material would one make a wall out of that an IR camera could see through??

And then would the statement that IR can see throught walls be correct??

It is all in what the wall is made of and if there is a delta "T" between materials

We can't see anything in the dark or even if the light is too bright

One must first understand the word "see"


rlb

Infrared energy waves pass through extremely few materials and therefore
the IR camera cannot see through walls. If you made a list of hundreds
of building materials used on walls... none would fit the bill.

Unless you build a wall of the same plastic they use to make plastic
bags at the store. That is one exception.

To be polite.. your not making much hay in this field.

Regarding the word 'see'....

Even if you could use a "one in a thousand" definition of a word,
it would make you look shady to say the least, and plain deceitful
at worst.

We know your not that kind of person... right?

The IR camera sees the surface energy coming from materials
(through emission or reflectance... almost never transmission) and
sometimes the energy from the other side of those materials makes
it through to show it's image. We do not see through the materials
used in building construction. Let's be honest with the consumer and
our selves. Setting proper expectations is what protects everyone.

[Chuck Lambert]

These are IR cameras not x-ray cameras!! The ad is mis-leading and will over all muddy the waters and create false hopes at the consumer end. IE.."Why does your IR camera not see through walls?. The ones Homesafe has does!!"
Problems down the line. Heck maybe one of us should hire them for a scan and then take them to court when there camera cannot 'see' through the walls as advertised!!