Thermal Imaging and Cost Effectiveness

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by rking6

Wow, William what a day! I wish I could have days like that every day. I noticed, you said that you get alot of work from creating relationships with contractors and I have spoke with others about this and it has seemed to work quite successful for them also. Anyways in particular you have began relationships with contractors, for example have you actually contacted contractors and explained your service, sent some pieces in the mail or did the snowball just kind of roll over time? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks William!

No. I have had a couple of them call me, looking for thermal. They had a problem and thought that thermal would help (water intrusion, radiant heat pipe leaks, insulation, condensation, etc) and a few that I have met during new construction inspections who were impressed and have had me in, later, to check on peoblems that they were having.

I have never actively persued them, if that is what you are asking.

Hope this helps;

[jrivera]

Try reading thru this. A fast log in and your there. http://www.pqndt.com/resources.html


Mic

[measter]

Originally Posted by wdecker

My take on this (from the Chicago area, which is VERY litigious).

$X, regular inspection, no thermal. OK.

Ask (seen as upselling) if they want to add thermal for $Y.

They don't want thermal? OK. Do the regular inspection.

BUT, there is, say, a leaking toilet seal, which you could have found, easily, with thermal, but you missed it.

So, they sue your butt for not finding in and claiming that you should have.

You go to trial. The only defense you have is "Sure, I could have found that, but they didn't want to pay extra for that." Right away, you look like a crook.

So, in the eyes of the jury (and you can bet that the Plaintiffs lawyer will argue that way) you tried to upcharge, the client turned you down, and they have $XXXXX damage, all because YOU DIDN"T FIND, BUT YOU COULD HAVE!!!!

Not logical, but most lawsuits, today are ALL about emotion, not logic.

So, the plaintiffs win and you have a BIG financal hit.

And you better hope that you are insured!

I include thermal in EVERY inspection, but I charge more for my inspections (about the 70th percentile, 20 % above the average).

And, my bookings are solid, and above those who don't use thermal. So are my web site hits (about 70 - 90 per day).

Many people call me, specifically, because I do do thermal.

All depends on your market, your understanding of that market and the past quality of your inspections. (Word of mouth).

Just my 3 1/2 cents.

Will, I'm not a legal mind, but I might have to disagree.

If you offer an enhanced diagnostic technique and they refuse, the client is in on the decision. The are partly to blame.
Now I agree that jurys are emotional and not normally objective to the facts. But when trying to protect against lawsuits, it's about preventing and covering yourself - not wondering what a jury might think. Very, very, very rarely would a case like this go to trial.
More likely the lawyers would see that when presented with an advanced diagnostic technology, the plaintiff refused because of cost, and now wants to blame someone else for their bad decision.

When a Dr recommends an MRI and the patient refuses (happens all the time). THen the patient sues when a diagnosis was missed (also happens all the time). Lawyers ask for the medical records, and there in the records it says "patient refused MRI against advisement". Now the "plaintiff" can't find a lawyer that will waste time on their case, because they know it's a lost cause.

It has no bearing on whether you bundle the IR survey with the inspection or not. I think yours is the correct decision, businesswise. It's the same as the mold waiver, or radon sampling or whatever extra service. What if you have radon samplers in your truck, but you didn't use them because the client didn't want to pay for it? You can't be liable for not finding radon.

Great job on the thermal imaging jobs. I could take a lesson from you!
Mark

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Jeff -

Depends on your area. I've seen NOBODY in my area doing any great business OR increased business with IR. Right now with the market as dead as it is, many RE Agents I talk with figure if anything - using an inspector with an IR camera is just another way to kill a deal / loose a sale.

If those agents are worried about killing a deal then rest assure if they are not loyal to their customers best interest then why would I be loyal to them.

regards

[Mark E. Northrup]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Today was supposed to be slow. Just a Pre-closing walk through, early in the morning. ( I don't charge for pre-closing walk throughs. Part of the original fee).

Then, and please pardon the religious reference, it seemed like G-d was doing my scheduling.

During the walk through, I got a call from a contractor. He was having some problems with water intrusion in a new condo. It was three blocks away from the walk through. Went over when I was through.

Sure enough, split faced block and no flashing under the parapet wall. Thermal confirmed, along with moisture meter (deep probing). Explained the problem and how to fix (no units sold, yet). $250 for a walk and talk.

Then, driving home, got a call from someone who was searching the web for insulation issues. About 1 mile away. Found defective insulation (settled cellulose) and showed him the problem. Another $250. No report.

Then went and had lunch. During my salad (trying to lose weight) goty a call from a plumber who suspected a leaky radiant floor heating system (older, copper pipe). Went over and scanned and found the leaky area. Stayed around while they broke it up. I found the spot. Another $250 check.

Started to go home again. Was in the drive-up lane to my bank, when a woman called me, only 4 blocks away, who had leakage above an exterior bay window. Went over and found the leak (failed caulk in the counter flashing (it rained last night and today. Yeah ) Another $250

Finally, on the way home, got a call from a friend. Water in the basement, Went over and scanned and found increased moisture in the basement in one area. He allowed me to "punch the drywall" in the basement and there was a new settling crack (8 month old house). No charge for that one. He shook my hand, and had a $50 it it.

So, on a day that I thought that I would be slow and I would take in $50.00, I deposited $1,050.00, all be cause of my thermal camera, my training, the articles I have written for my web site, on the activerain blog and my working with contractors to better educate them.

Gravy. I have found that Thermal, properly used, with proper training and properly marketed, sharing one's experience and experiences, publically, does a world of wonder. 3 of these inspections came from the internet. One from my web site, one from the activerain blog and one from the NACHI board. The 4th was from my previous inspection with a builder.

Think about all the Thermal uses, even if they are out of the realm of normal pre-purchase home inspections. Market to those groups, which the internet makes very easy.

When the home market comes back (it is beginning to, in my area) you will be in the cat-bird seat. Plus, you will have many other markets and clients for your services.

I have found that many inspectors who don't want to do thermal or are afraid or can't think of ways to get the money to buy one, are being cautious, which is good. But, I would advise them to think out of the envelope. Depends upon your area and market, which you should already be aware of.

Hope this helps;

That is awesome will. I just started the thermal imaging use and i am loving it. I have aready found several defects in clients house. I use it on all inspections but don't include pictures if they don't want to pay for the use of the camera. I cover my self. I call out items that i see but i try to find the defect that is causing it first such as a gutter or flashing that is bad. Most people want to have the service after i show them how the camera works and what it sees.
Mark

[Nick Gromicko]

www.nachi.org/ir.htm

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by gromicko

www.nachi.org/ir.htm

IR class, soon, at the Wisconcin Chapter, I believe Jan. 29 - 30th, and sooner at the Chicagoland Chapter. Watch for dates. Both will also count for state CE hours.

Hope this helps;

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by mnorthrup

That is awesome will. I just started the thermal imaging use and i am loving it. I have aready found several defects in clients house. I use it on all inspections but don't include pictures if they don't want to pay for the use of the camera. I cover my self. I call out items that i see but i try to find the defect that is causing it first such as a gutter or flashing that is bad. Most people want to have the service after i show them how the camera works and what it sees.
Mark

Very cool mark. Post some before and IR pics for us if you will sir.