Ti32 versus E-60

[Rye Zers]

Originally Posted by sgilligan1

I am amazed that you went through all that trouble with calculating everything, however there are some basic things that you overlooked that will significantly impact the image quality.

First off...

Most imagers on the market are typically limited by the pixel count of the display screen. It does no good if your detector can see more than what can be displayed on the screen.

Most specs in modern thermal camera I saw have display that is equal or greater than the pixel resolution. Name one model that doesn't do this (maybe the ones prior to 1990). Display screen are much cheaper now hence 640x480 resolution display is quite common nowadays. I think the manufacturer usually make the display pixel count equal or greater than the pixel resolution. Why would any manufacturer put a lower resolution display to a higher resolution pixel chip sensor and waste the latter ability.

Secondly...

Camera manufacturers use software in their cameras that assign colors in a palette to temperature ranges in the span. Some manufactures only have 100 colors per palette, some can go up to 256 colors. Colors cover a range of temperatures. Minute temperature differentials within a wide temperature span will all be seen as the same temperature.

Thinking that the difference between 80mk and 40mk is going to give you more colors in an image is flawed thinking. Again, it is marketing jargon and purely hype to try to make one camera sound better than the next.

I assume all use 256 colors which is 8 bit. And 2^8 is 256. With 256 colors. For example, if you temperature span is 10 Celsius. 10/256= 0.039 Celsius or 0.040 C or 40mK. Hence each color of the 256 color should correspond to 40mK difference. Therefore theoretically you should see more colors in 40mk camera. I spent about one hour comparing the Ti32 to Ti25 in the fluke store which I found locally. I use the face of the demo rep as target and the Ti32 can show more white compare to Ti25. The white is mostly in the sides of the neck that corresponds perhaps to heat generated by the carotid arteries that supply the head area. This is almost invisible to the Ti25. I wonder how many percentage the Ti32 better 320x240 resolution compare to Ti25 160x120 correspond to the improvement compared to the Ti32 45mk thermal sensitivity versus the Ti25 100mk sensitivity.

Anyway. I can't find in the internet the actual color bit used in the palettes of common thermal imagers. I'm assuming it's 256 color or 8 bit. To know this. Load your jpeg images in an image viewer that shows the total number of colors. If it's close to 256, then it's 256 color. Also if you know of a model that is 100 bit. Please tell what it is because the data about bits of color used in palettes is nowhere to be found in the internet.

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

Originally Posted by Rye Zers

Most specs in modern thermal camera I saw have display that is equal or greater than the pixel resolution. Name one model that doesn't do this (maybe the ones prior to 1990). Display screen are much cheaper now hence 640x480 resolution display is quite common nowadays. I think the manufacturer usually make the display pixel count equal or greater than the pixel resolution. Why would any manufacturer put a lower resolution display to a higher resolution pixel chip sensor and waste the latter ability.



I assume all use 256 colors which is 8 bit. And 2^8 is 256. With 256 colors. For example, if you temperature span is 10 Celsius. 10/256= 0.039 Celsius or 0.040 C or 40mK. Hence each color of the 256 color should correspond to 40mK difference. Therefore theoretically you should see more colors in 40mk camera. I spent about one hour comparing the Ti32 to Ti25 in the fluke store which I found locally. I use the face of the demo rep as target and the Ti32 can show more white compare to Ti25. The white is mostly in the sides of the neck that corresponds perhaps to heat generated by the carotid arteries that supply the head area. This is almost invisible to the Ti25. I wonder how many percentage the Ti32 better 320x240 resolution compare to Ti25 160x120 correspond to the improvement compared to the Ti32 45mk thermal sensitivity versus the Ti25 100mk sensitivity.

Anyway. I can't find in the internet the actual color bit used in the palettes of common thermal imagers. I'm assuming it's 256 color or 8 bit. To know this. Load your jpeg images in an image viewer that shows the total number of colors. If it's close to 256, then it's 256 color. Also if you know of a model that is 100 bit. Please tell what it is because the data about bits of color used in palettes is nowhere to be found in the internet.

You have to reverse engineer the software a little and you can see for yourself. Download a trial version of each camera manufacturer and open up the color palettes. Your will see the RGB values listed in each palette. Some have as little as 100 values. Some have 256 in them. What some people don't know is that you can make your own color palettes based on the work that you want to do.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

NOT to be rude BUT I originally started this post to gain input from REAL home inspectors and others actually using the Ti32 OR E-60 in their daily business OR preferably someone that REALLY has COMPARED the two. It has gotten so OUT in LEFT FIELD and OFF BASE its ludicrous.

Rye seems to have turned this into a physics class with his mathmatical equations. I'm still looking for real life info if anyone has it.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by dbowers

NOT to be rude BUT I originally started this post to gain input from REAL home inspectors and others actually using the Ti32 OR E-60 in their daily business OR preferably someone that REALLY has COMPARED the two. It has gotten so OUT in LEFT FIELD and OFF BASE its ludicrous.

Rye seems to have turned this into a physics class with his mathmatical equations. I'm still looking for real life info if anyone has it.

Shucks I thought all yous guys up that direction was rude

Dan to cut to the chase without all the advertising BS from the different companies when comparing apples to apples very little difference with the end product as long as you are comparing like cameras. (The image itself) Fluke is slamming their cameras against the wall trying to sell them and FLIR is stating we have been in the IR business longer than anyone buy from us.
I started out with Flir and own 3 of their cameras and I like them its what I am use to using. If I had started out with Fluke I would have stayed with them. If I use a image in a report I want it sharp and in focus its not so much the camera as it is the operator. JMO

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Thanks Charlie .........

[Bogomil Stefanov]

Here is my opinion about FLUKE TiR32 vs FLIR E60:
I have FLUKE TiR32 and I know very well this imager. Last month I use one FLIR E 60 for a couple of days and what I can say:
- FLUKE manual focus is easy to use;
- FLUKE display is brighter that FLIR;
- FLIR B60 have big software problems (You need to restart the camera when menu functions not working properly);
- FLUKE is more balanced camera in your hand (I mean for Home Inspections);
- FLUKE menu is user friendly and faster;
- FLUKE Smart View software is cost free and has more functions for Home Inspections needs;
- FLUKE standard lens is bigger;
- FLUKE have optional sun shield;
- FLUKE have no lights for dark rooms;
- FLUKE have no laser pointer;
- FLUKE have no video out;
- FLIR IR bolometer is better.
I hope that this information is useful for You!
I'm sorry for my poor English...
See that:
http://www.nachi.org/forum/f58/heck-flir-59679/

[Wayne B. Wilson]

I have a Fluke Tr32 also love it ,i also had a Flir for 5 years I was in need to upgrade glad i am glad i did both company sell good cameras Dan. Just my 2 cents, Picture over picture is great for home inspectors .